Saturday Deluxe / 9 April 2022
SDE readers’ verdict on George Michael box
George Michael Older box slated by SDE readers
It has been a while since a box set has received as much negative feedback as the newly announced George Michael Older super deluxe edition. The SDE news post on Wednesday has over 200 comments and after 199 votes the 5CD+3LP box set has an SDE reader rating of just 1.7 out 5. Or to put it another way, only 32 people rated it higher than two stars. The main three complaints from fans seem to be as follows:
- Why do I have to buy three vinyl records to get the five CDs?
- Why is there virtually no previously unreleased audio and no video content?
- Why is it £140?
On top of that there are those who are disappointed with no hi-res audio and no spatial audio mix. Also, at the £140 price point, the 40-page book looks to be inferior to what we get regularly from The Who or McCartney (normally around 128-page books, sometimes more than one) and so it seems clear this package hasn’t really hit the spot.
There has been no information at all about the remastering. Interestingly, the album was recorded entirely digitally on two Otari RADAR 24‑track hard disk recorders. These were only capable of recording 48kHz/16 bit audio. This means that a) there is no true analogue master for Older. And b) a 96/24 hi-res version is not possible unless they resample the audio. Read a great Sound On Sound article about the Older sessions here. Sample quote from engineer Paul Gomersall: “‘Free’ was originally twice as long as it appears on the album, and then it was hacked to bits on the RADAR, with chunks taken out and redirected throughout the piece. It was done mostly as an experiment, but it worked so well that the result sounds wholly intentional from the outset.”
To be fair, the 2LP vinyl packages look great, butyou can understand why CD fans feel very aggrieved when the options are to spend £140 or do nothing! Sony and George Michael (or team GM) have now reissued George’s first three solo albums and there are issues with all of them. With George no longer with us, there was a feeling that maybe we’d get something better at the third time of asking, but that hasn’t happened. Unless the personnel change within George’s camp, or they start listening to people who understand the marketplace, we’ll never get any decent Wham! or George Michael re-releases. With Older, if the goal was to give fans a great box set then, to put it bluntly, they do not know what they are doing. We all own examples of great music deluxe editions or box sets (XTC, Jethro Tull, Marillion, Tears For Fears, recent Lennon etc.) and can we honestly say that the Older box comes anywhere close to them?
Freed from the controlling nature of George Michael himself, it seems that his team are now, apparently, constrained by the ghost of George Michael, honouring his every wish however misguided or unreasonable that wish may be. This is in contrast to the Prince Estate who have opened the floodgates to a series of high quality reissues that mine his archive. These have been acclaimed by critics and fans alike.
Read more about the Older reissue and the comments from SDE readers
Nik Kershaw to release ‘Songs From The Shelf’ – but only digitally
Nik Kershaw has informed fans via his social media channels that between 1989 and 1998, when he took a step back to focus on writing and production for others, he ended up with a “shelf full of songs” some of which made it out into the word, while “most did not”.
These are being issued as Songs From The Shelf, a series of curated releases with ‘Part 1’ coming soon. This sounds interesting, although sadly these are digital EPs and there’s no plans (at least at this stage) to issue these physically.
There has been some grumbling on Facebook about this, but the response from Nik HQ was that they “understand that record collectors” may be disappointed but that “the music speaks for itself. The tracks are amazing”.
Release date change for Associates and Rick Astley
I’m sorry to inform everyone that BMG have changed the release date for the Associates Sulk deluxe edition and the Rick Astley reissue of Whenever You Need Somebody.
The Associates moves back to 15 July (was 13 May) due to “unforeseen manufacturing delays”. Rick moves back two weeks from 6 May to 20 May 2022.
I’m highlighting this because it impacts anyone who has pre-ordered the exclusives via SDE. You will get an email separately for your records.
Rick Astley’s 2CD of Whenever You Need Somebody with SDE-exclusive 7-track ‘Never Gonna Give You Up’ CD single has now sold out, but you can still pre-order the 3CD+LP of Associates with SDE-exclusive ‘Party Fears Two’ CD single using this link or the button below.
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Tbh, I’m not a fan of CD, and a remastered two vinyl disc is good value for this album. However, if I ‘was’ a CD fan I’d be livid. This is, to be fair, case in point of a complaint Paul made recently about CD fans being forced to pay top dollar for boxsets, when fans of other media can buy their versions in either single or double disc format. As to the other complaint, the decision to include hires surround discs, usually blu ray, only in boxsets, this is a very poor commerical decision, never mind being unfair to those of us who only want that version. As Alan Parsons showed with Eye in the Sky, releasing the blu ray after the end of the boxset run, demand for that disc sent it up to the top of the classical chart. If record companies cared to look, they’d also notice demand for Tears for Fears new blu ray has massively exceeded supply, resulting in silly money being exchanged on Ebay. Back to CD, I do resent it when people complain about vinyl just because it ‘is’ vinyl, being remastered, and we need to get past that silliness, but, as CD is bought by far more people, the record companies are clearly just using this kind of product to try and put people off them. Not because they want more vinyl sales (far from it), but because they want more people to switch to their business model, built as it is, on high profit, low outlay, streaming. Perhaps, and this is only a thought, they need to look at real world sales (CD sales are up for the first time in a decade) and not just at computer models…
I’d be really happy if they decided to release a double CD version including the original Older and an extended version of Upper, including some extra remixes, at a fair price point. As for this boxset, I’ll give it a miss. There’s no way I’d even think of spending this much on such an underwhelming product. And don’t get me started on the inclusion of vinyl records…
Let me offer the GM estate a suggestion as to a future release – how about a blu-ray of all George’s videos, with the music mixed to 5.1/Atmos?
Can’t imagine there’d be too many complainers if they came out with something like that (so long as they didn’t eff-up the video or the sound, of course).
Well that’s the latest George Michael reissue disappointment out of the way for now – just the potentially disappointing Madonna reissues to go… haha
White Vinyl Older back in AmUK as of 12.50pm, just ordered one.
If the original master is digital 16 bit 48kHz then resampling the audio to achieve a 24bit 96kHz hi-res option will add nothing to the audio and only create bigger digital files.
Paul,
If the George Michael estate is smart, they will ask you to do their reissue campain. I think that you will do a much better job, than those who are doing it now!
Not expecting a call anytime soon :)
You never know. If this reissue of “Older” flops, they might change their minds.
I am really disappointed in this reissue. “Listen Without Prejudice” and “Older” are George Michael’s best albums. These albums deserve better reissues than they are getting now.
Paul is doing solid work with an objective perspective regarding this upcoming release – and despite what some of you may think, the fans do have a voice. (The Sonic the Hedgehog film character redesign comes to mind, and other marketing/retail strategies that were reconsidered because of the fans/consumers voice and pocketbook.) This current set is a beautifully packaged, albeit bare bones set, and the fans know they’re being ripped off. I’m happy for the vinyl purists, but everyone else realizes this a minimal effort release. I’m hardly a miser when it comes to music, love GM’s work, and this album in particular is meaningful to me, but without a CD only version, I can’t justify the cost vs. value.
Whilst working at Universal Music I recall occasions when an artist would pass and suddenly a team would be assembled and go into “Paint A Vulgar Picture” mode – repackage, compile, take advantage of the catalog! However, with legendary legacy artists, more care and thoughtfulness was taken into account. This is why his fandom is so crestfallen by this Sony release; part of me is grateful they’re acknowledging Older, but they went about it in a haphazard way. A little investment in perhaps making a short documentary about its release, the original EPK, the initial critical reception, its success, mixed in with some clips from the era and some current day reflections, would have shown the fans they care. Not getting the MTV Unplugged video here is a real shame.
Someone posted in the comments that Andros might have a hand in all this, and they may be onto something. I recall our international office being offered unreleased material from time to time from sketchy third party partners, and it was always a delicate ethical decision coupled with a serious financial profit and loss assessment. Andros might hold the keys to this particular kingdom (LWP through Older era), and is asking for the world or at odds with the current estate.
James Jackman, who came into GM’s life in 1997 and worked with him until his untimely passing, said in an interview that there were four finished songs for an upcoming project when GM passed, one of which was “This Is How (We Want You To Get High)”. The family is holding the other three for a future release apparently. I still believe we’ll get something eventually that will finally satiate the fandom, it might be career spanning type sets featuring collaborations (Elton, Queen, Deon Estus, Toby Bourke, and possible Older era material etc.), but it will be a while before that happens. While we’re getting “older”, they’re asking us for “patience”. Shrug.
That might also explain the weirdly limited-edition CD releases of “Jive Talkin'” and “You Spin Me Round” with George’s vocals. It seemed like those were made to intentionally fly under the radar of everyone except the hardcore fans.
Cheers, that was me on the Andros comments. I do however think Sony is not the problem here, but the estate. However, by “the estate” I think we only mean David Austin, and I personally don’t think he’s up to the job. I believe he’s full time employed to look after the estate, so one can easily judge for themselves on how well that’s going.
There are 3 songs left, but judging by the first release, I’m not hanging out for them (hopefully I’m proven wrong). There is of course also the track he had recently recorded with Naughty Boy. I assume from its lack of release that it’s tied up with some future release of new material.
If you think £140 for x3 vinyl records and x5 CD’s and a “book” is over the top, maybe check out the new Zappa Erie boxset at £125 for just x6 CD’s!
This SDE rating widget thingy is brilliant for quickly highlighting what fans feel about new releases. Please use it some more.
Thanks! Yes I will post it more and would encourage everyone to use it!
When you do, please post it UNDER the story. When you post it at the top of the story, I don’t know what I think about it yet, and by the time I’m done reading your thorough description of the item, I’ve forgotten about the rating tool already.
Also, it would be great to have a separate area of the site to discuss releases AFTER they’re released. I sometimes go back to the initial post after the item is released and there is very little additional posting at that point. Having a separate part of the site to discuss those would be a very nice thing.
We live in a world of infinite possibilities and it is almost certain that the CDs will be released individually in the near future. I can understand that the mix of vinyl and cd is not ideal for many people and that the price is a joke ,but it will sell loads anyway. No one can expect record companies to care about fans or collectors, its all about the money to them. On a separate note, I agree with some on here that the criticisms often read like entitlement: those people who expect every release to match their specific needs and requirements and throw their toys out of the pram in the comments section are tiresome (but occasionally entertaining too!).
Well just to make a point, the only reissue by George Michael that I have felt the need to buy was the 2 disc set of Listen Without Prejudice because it included the new remix and the previously unissued unplugged. I have all of this already, yes it looks nice and well put together, but so do a lot of things, Pink Floyd managed to put together some excellent sets that included Marbles and unreleased material. Value for money is a real component and this is lacking real value to any big fan that cares more about music than collecting different formats. Live performances, early mixes, full versions, unreleased outtakes, cover versions, they are all in the archives. This does collect everything previously issued, which is better than most major artists ever do, but really there should be something there for those that bothered to get these singles back in the day… or have already heard via downloads or YouTube.
It is just frustrating to know the interesting stuff is being held back, everyone is getting Older, the big question is, what exactly are his custodians waiting for?
George Michael is one of my favorite artists but i think that i will pass on this box set.I don’t mind that it does not contain unreleased stuff. It is good to have all the remixes and b-sides in one place.I will not buy this box set because i am not interested in vinyl and the price is high. They should release a CD only box set at a reasonable price. This box set is an opportunity to gain profit and they don’t care how many fans will buy it. The high price of a box set does not mean that is worth buying. One of the best releases of the recent years is Tina Turner’s Foreign Affair which was released last summer. They release a beautiful box set with 4 CD’s and 1 DVD. The second CD (the one with the remixes, is maybe the longest i have in my collection, 86 minutes of music). Also, the box set includes a previously unreleased, 2CD live album and a DVD with an unreleased full live show and all the video clips of that album. The price of this box set when it was released was under 30 GBP. And Foreign Affair was an album succesful as Older.
Great news about the new Nik Kershaw EP Songs from the Shelf!
Tracklisting for Volume One:
It will be nice to have the gap between The Works and 15 Minutes albums filled with these releases!
…and hope remains yet for a physical release of this 3 part project!
Nik was asked on Twitter if there will be vinyl and CD release and replied:
‘…No (at least not until part III)’
Excellent news! Whilst I would love a physical release I never thought Nik would make these available so super excited we will get to hear some of his shelved work
Yes, it is great news!
Though the songs themselves have been on the shelf for many years, I wonder if Nik has revisited them and rerecorded them? I hope so, as his arrangements and vocals on latest album Oxymoron were really inspired and excellent!
Oxymoron is incredible and couldn’t agree more with your comments. I am still hoping Nik tours Oxymoron but not holding my breath. Both The Works and 15 Minutes are brilliant albums. I am hoping we get them in their original form which will give us a glimpse of where Nik was musically and lyrically during the 8 year gap.
On the George Michael website it statesTHE ALBUM WILL ALSO BE RELEASED INDIVIDUALLY IN 2LP, CD AND DIGITAL FORMATS. I ended up cancelling from the website because the shipping was prohibitive. But I was happy to get the boxset & the green vinyl elsewhere. And I thought the content was good. I think the estate has improved. They have reissued Words & the Older 25 both of which I wanted.
If anyone from the estate is reading this fan would like Fantastic, Make It Big & The Final expanded & reissued. Please include Wham! in China: Foreign Skies. Thank you
I too want super deluxe editions of Fantastic, Make It Big and The Final including a DVD of Wham! In China: Foreign Skies. If it ever happens, please get the fans involved to ensure that the releases includes everything released commercially and as a promo only. It’s about time the Wham years were celebrated
Good luck with that.
Wham! Fantastic was my 2nd album. But as for deluxe edition – even 2 of the tracks on the original album were instrumentals of other album tracks! (On the same side of the album as well – and sequenced just 3 tracks later than their vocal versions! – Which then on the later CD release made even less sense!!!), so I wouldn’t be holding out for much new & exciting music to fill a second CD unfortunately.
I never understood why the instrumentals were added in that order. They should of added the Club Fantastic Megamix instead. Andrew Ridgeley stated in 2019 there are no unreleased Wham! songs but there must be one or two rough mixes and demos they could add alongside all the commercial edits, mixes and instrumentals. Dream release would be a CD size boxset containing the 5 singles, original album including a lyric sheet, a DVD with the videos and a disc of rough mixes and demos. To finish the set the Club Fantastic Tour programme. I know it will never happen
Paul,
Is there a possibility that the demos/unreleased tracks of this era aren’t owned by anyone! George and Andros of course set up Aegean to foster other artists and release George’s material under. When George and Andros fell out, I read somewhere (and not saying this is true) that Andros was targeting fans and selling George related items, like the nearly 2 hour footage of George recording Trojan Souls (assume you’ve seen this?), and has been fast to shut it down whenever it pops back up on YouTube. So the demos, abandoned tracks etc could very well be in Andro’s hands/”ownership” if not registered with Aegean?
I myself am disappointed that the full set wasn’t released on vinyl and also a similar box set of all the material on CD without the vinyl for those who like that medium. That would solve a lot of arguing and Sony would more than likely have made more money in the long run ?, Charging £160 – £180 for a vinyl box set which would have made the vinyl collectors very happy, and charge £80 for the 5 CDs / outer Older box and the book. Why they didn’t do this escapes me?.
I do think the price of the super deluxe set is steep for the content and the fact they are only including black vinyl and not another colour unique to the box is an opportunity missed. I must say though if I had £140 I probably would have bought it as it is a nice thing albeit not well thought out.
Unfortunately his fans have some unrealistic expectations about despite knowing how his estate have handled his career, is their fault really for thinking they were gonna get some type of Prince treatment reissue.
Now we now. It’s the fans’ fault that the campaign is a bit of a shambles. Good to have cleared that up.
The problem that this release (Older) is up against isn’t just itself and the two previous GM “SDE”s (in name if not in quality). Whether anyone likes it or not it is up against every other equivalent release by many other artists. There is always the argument of “status” which usually gets rolled out when Mr. McCartney releases a stupidly expensive SDE or wildly priced set of coloured vinyl LPs. The mixed vinyl situation I believe is bad, and that is as someone who uses both media. There are many examples of similar (lesser or greater) artists doing it beautifully. In the CD only arena we have Jethro Tull and in the CD and Vinyl arena we have Marillion. Lets take the latter. What they have done, in my opinion is pretty much exemplary. A multi-disc bookset with 3 or 4 CDs and Blu-Ray disc at a more than reasonable price accompanied by a similar 4LP set released at a reasonable price. A £30 Cd set and a £50 LP set when thrown together somehow become a £140 set? I did O-Level maths and can work out that something is wrong here. There is absolutely no other reason here for Sony to do this than to maximise profit. And that is fine, but it is then up to us to say No. That extra £40 – £60 of value just does not exist in this set. There should be a £40 CD set of 4 CDs and a Video disc of some kind. There should be a £60 / £70 4 or 5 LP set (Older / Upper and selected remixes) and then if they wanted to get funky they could create an Uber edition with all of that plus a knockout book maybe an extra CD or a 10″ and they could have charged £180 / £200 for it. Because this would have given people choice. The CD bods can buy the CD set, the vinyl peeps could buy the Vinyl set or if you are like me you can buy both or get the big sparkly Uber set or ALL THREE if you are a completist. It’s one thing to try and maximise profit….. It’s another thing entirely to do that on the cheap, whilst not giving any more than a tiny minority something they want and even then I think those that are positive would agree it still could be done better.
If they had doubled the budget and produced 5 alternative sets double LP / Double CD / 5 disc set / 5 LP set / Uber set they would have made as much if not more. But that would require EFFORT. That would require THOUGHT. That would require INVESTMENT.
I do not believe any of those things have been instilled in this set and that is why, whatever your thoughts, the figures of 1.7 out of 5 do not lie. I don’t think it is an “Angry” 1.7 as some have chosen to frame it. It’s a “Disappointed” 1.7 and as any child or partner will know it’s far worse when people are disappointed in you, anger is far easier to shrug off. The disappointment is there because there are so many examples of much better releases. Any music industry person would have to be deaf, blind and mute to have not noticed some fairly decent offerings over the last few years. This, in my worthless opinion, is half-arsed and pathetic. It earned it’s 1.7 out of 5.
Nicely put, Chris.
The price of this set cannot be justified in any way. Sony must think they can get away with it, and if it sells out, then I suppose their greed is vindicated.
Count me in as another who would happily (re)buy this material on a 4-disc CD set or whatever, for £30-40. Obviously, I’d like more, and wish we would get more. But if the Older deluxe had been in a stylish spot-varnished box, with 4 or 5 CDs of the mixes and B-sides across all the old singles, plus a nice book, I don’t think as many people would have been complaining about rip-offs and wasted opportunities.
Don’t want vinyl, want a CD only set please.
All the record companies have to do is copy the Jethro tull booksets, and release everything like that(price as well). All problems solved.
Whilst I didn’t vote the packages released aren’t great. A much better selection would have been to have the vinyl and CDs available as separate releases. Then maybe the mixed format boxset available with an added bonus ie expanded hardback book or souvenir 7″. This way buyers could get all the music on the format they want with the super deluxe left for the collectors. Furthermore when releasing these boxsets nothing should be left behind. Sweep up 5,6 or 7 discs. The TFF & Marillion sets did a great job of this and we certainly can’t knock the SOTT boxset.
Very easily. It’s about being open to being and generous as you can be with what you have. I didn’t say I expected Prince quantity of material. George was about as unproflic as a major artist in his 30s and 40s has ever been. Even Kate Bush released more studio albums than he did between 2000 and 2016. George was a control freak. Andrew Ridgeley says as much in his book and I’ve worked with people who have worked with George. So the point is, the control freak is no longer around to exert control and while that is very sad, it also means that there is an opportunity to improve his reissues because he’s no longer around to refuse permission to allow things to be included. Prince was also a control freak but things did change when he died. Therefore it’s very pertinent to compare the two estates. George made Sony include Unplugged on LWP – that was plain wrong. It’s these kinds of mistakes/bad decisions which should be eradicated, but it doesn’t appear as if they have been.
Generally I tend to agree with most of what you say Paul (and I said I was going to steer clear of the George Michael debate) but I have to disagree with one of your statements (or at least present a different view).
You say that:
“…the control freak is no longer around to exert control and while that is very sad, it also means that there is an opportunity to improve his reissues because he’s no longer around to refuse permission to allow things to be included.”
However, what we don’t know is what George may have stipulated in his will. It could be that the ‘control freak’ decided he didn’t want anything new to be added to his existing ‘art’. If that is the case (and I have no idea either way) then surely it is only right that it should be respected.
Obviously that has not bearing on how the estate and record label chose to (re)package and reissue the existing material (I doubt very much that George would have stipulated “by the way please package CD and Vinyl into an expensive edition after I have gone”) but it would certainly put restrictions on what the label have to play with.
You’re right he could have said that. If he did then what have the record label got to lose by telling us and explaining that they are the constraints they are working under. Why does it have to be a secret?
I’m thinking there were no express wishes from George and there’s disagreement in the estate about what to do. Hence the lack of statement.
The place is full of whiners. As if this veiled attack on the label will make any difference? I notice that people’s voices surrounding the headline are all negative. “The people have spoken!” Well, my positive input yesterday failed to make the grade so there’s obviously an agenda at play. Was I seriously the only one within SDE’s camp, singing the boxset’s praises?
I always thought that collecting was a niche market. I was under the impression that collectors were the connoisseurs of music and accepted that occasionally, once in a blue moon, one would need to dig a little deeper into their pockets if they really wanted something special? And, for me at least, this is top tier stuff.
Honestly, it’s like watching children squabble over sweets in the playground. Reading some of the comments yesterday was embarrassing.
Many of the complaints were about the content, from the usual grumpy crowd. If it wasn’t about repeat remixes, it was no 5.1 or Atmos. Shock, horror! The cheek of it! I hardly doubt the label will reverse their decision so late in the day. However, I prefer both formats as I enjoy playing vinyl and I have the remixes on CD should I want to listen. And what about the gorgeous book that comes with it? Is nobody interested in reading about the album?
I seem to recall a similar discussion / moan about the lovely Shakespears Sister boxset ‘Our History’. Wasn’t there remixes only available in the boxset but not the standalone CD set? I mean I wouldn’t consider myself a die hard Shakespearean Sister (or should that be brother?) but I wanted it for it’s majestic beauty and the enclosed book.
Anyway, it’s not ALL negative. There are people who are HAPPY. Thankyou.
Hey John. I read your constant complaining about Duran Duran and their management on twitter and you call other people whiners!?
A couple of hundred people voted (on top of all the comments) and the culmulative rating is 1.7 out of 5. If you were to write an article about this response would you characterise the response as ‘positive’ or ‘negative’? Your “positive input” was registered (assuming you voted).
I really can’t believe some of the responses to this today. “Veiled attack on the label?”. The fault is largely with team GM. Andrew Ridgeley’s Wham! book wasn’t very good, so was my review of that a “veiled attack on the publisher?”
Why are people so desperate to defend a clearly overpriced and lacking box set? I’m genuinely interested. Makes no sense to me.
I regularly see the same kind of response to criticism on other forums. It’s almost as if the fans are worried that, should a few people complain, the record company will take their bat home and refuse to release any more product in the future. It’s clearly a ridiculous idea, that Sony et al are nervously scouring the comments sections, but I genuinely believe that’s the thought process.
Paul, I did vote. But you haven’t publicly quoted any of my positive reactions with the clever sound bites centred around your heading.
So was Shakespears Sister overpriced as well..just to obtain the extra disc? I seem to recall it selling out within 48 hours or something like that?
As for Duran Duran, you know full well, as a fellow ‘whiner’ in the past, that the management haven’t a foggiest on how to appease fans or have no interest in listening – even with a massive survey served on a plate that I conducted, alongside another individual. The big request at the time, four years back, was a Duranthology physical product. All we’ve had since is a couple of RSD’s colour vinyl that the eBay scalps got their hands on and varying coloured vinyl of the very average Future Past album. Which is a start I guess.
But, please don’t make me out to be the bad guy when you’ve been just as vocal about the subject in the past – of which I have added my support no less. If it wasn’t for ‘whiners’ it’s worth remembering that nothing would ever be accomplished. Besides, I haven’t protested for about two years now – so you have a very good memory!
I stand by my remarks about ‘Older’ (the boxset). Yes it could have had Atmos, 5/6/7.1 and a DVD etc etc. But it hasn’t. It doesn’t take away the fact that it is a lovely, bespoke set – and it will sell to those who keep quiet until the point that there won’t be any copies available – and there won’t be anything left to kick off about.
“But you haven’t publicly quoted any of my positive reactions with the clever sound bites centred around your heading”. That’s because the story about the fact that *most SDE readers do not like the box set*, and the graphic was created to illustrate that point. The detail of the post goes into the nuances. I also encourage people to read the comments, and nowhere do I say “no one has anything good to say about this box set”.
The Shakespears Sister box was a mixed-media set as well, but it was a two-album anthology with, video content, bonus singles, a bigger book etc. It was 11 discs and was £100 IIRC, which is £40 cheaper.
The heading leads to a biased one sided argument.
It’s now Saturday night at the movies.
Enjoy your weekend!
The heading is a statement of fact. Enjoy yours.
So let me just get this right: I AM allowed to complain about Duran Duran and that’s NOT whining as John Archbell has decided it’s justified and it’s worth while. But I’m NOT allowed to complain about George Michael as that IS whining as John Archbell has decided it isn’t justified and it’s not worthwhile because the record companies / estate won’t listen? Just want to make sure I’m understanding the new SDE rules I wasn’t previously aware of.
The main criticisms are all completely valid, I feel. The last time I read about ‘vitriol’ was in Brighton Rock.
Really? Mine always says ‘Brighton’ inside it. (I figured this page needed some humour with some of the comments flying about!)
Seems to be a trend lately with over-priced releases. It is one thing to charge $40+ US for some vinyl release [because of the lack of manufacturing facilities, COVID, etc.] but I think they are now trying to jack up the prices on all releases. Look at the Rolling Bones’ Live At The El Mocambo. $140 US for 4 LP, $30 US for just 2 CDs?
I’ll steer clear of the George Michael debate and just say:
Very disappointed by the delay of the Associates album. One of the May releases I was really looking forward to along with Fripp, The Police, Sparks reissues and the second tranche of Roxy releases.
Oh well. Worth waiting for…
This is corporate greed, pure and simple. I’m gonna stick with my 3 disc edition of 25 and the deluxe editions of Faith and Listen without prejudice. My George Michael collection is now complete! I’ve never been a fan of Sony, especially because of the way they treated George while he was part of their stable. Its clear they’ve learned nothing. However, as someone else noted, this behaviour of gouging fans has definitely become common place. The release strategy for Kylie Minogue’s last album “Disco” was equally as cheeky. Cd, vinyl, deluxe cd. Then several months later, they released the guest list edition which included the deluxe edition with some new tracks and an online concert. Then they released extended mixes of the album tracks but only on vinyl with no cd release. Now they’re releasing the online concert to streaming platforms. I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t feel like providing pop stars with their retirement fund. It all feels a bit disrespectful to me.
It is really a shame how the musical heritage of GM is treated. Even if there is no or hardly any unreleased material, one can at least prepare what is available in a contemporary and loving way for all interest groups. But here again the fast money seems to be in the foreground. How to serve at least the interest groups can be seen well with Prince.
Some things make me chuckle. Burning Shed are selling a 12 inch and CD of songs by ex-XTC singer Andy Partridge. On their website you can buy the CD and 12 inch separately or as a bundle with both of them together. The thing is the bundle price is exactly the same as the individual CD and 12 prices added together. No saving or discount for your bundle. It gets better. Their website is showing the bundle as sold out despite both the CD and 12 being still available to order individually. I did check that today wasn’t April 1st.
Nik has always done what he wants to do, us older SDE readers remember… Better to have them than not and wasn’t that the promise of the internet in the late 90s to music fans, that everything ever released would one day be available. Also cheap and easy for Nik, so tick there.
Good news from the Kershaw camp at least. I’d also love to hear more of his demos from the the 80’s, even of those tracks which made official release. On YouTube there used to be a fascinating recording of Nik running through I Won’t Let the Sun, explaining the chords and riffs to an unidentified listener.
I’m happy with what I got, and I pre-ordered all formats (except white vinyl, still has to surface on FR/DE/I ‘zons.
Totally understand the negative feedback on this. I don’t buy CDs and only buy vinyl. I have ordered the red release from his store which is pretty good. But why spend £140 for a expensive 3 vinyl and 5 CD box set, makes no sense. However the GM team won’t give a crap as it’s sold out everywhere.
I’m not a George Michael fan and I don’t intend to buy this reissue, but I have one simple question : why are you so angry ? 140 £ is a lot of money, but it has become the standard price for this kind of boxsets. They have become premium products, even if pop music is supposed to be… popular, in other words, affordable. But this is the world we’re living in right now.
This is the last opportunity for artists and record labels to sell their back catalogue in a physical format. When I interviewed Steven Wilson last year, he told me that it will be all over in 10 or 15 years. I tend to agree with him, but who knows ?
This is only speculation, but there must be something in GM will that prevents the record company to publish unreleased material. An artist can do whatever he likes with his songs, even if it causes frustration, and anger, among his fans.
Who is this question to, Remi? Is it to the SDE readers that gave their verdict? I’m personally not angry at all, just disappointed because it’s not very good.
It’s certainly not very good at that price. Release the 5 CDs and a book for £40 and I’d probably buy it as a completist.
There must be other mixes, demos, unreleased tracks. I mean I mean in 1990 he was saying he wanted to release an album every year….
Yes I have to respond to all the opinions and feedback. Paul you have a great site and it has become a place to people leave feedback. But I have to agree with Remi on this. The level of vitriol with some of the comments is extreme. Perhaps it is because of the love of George Michael’s music and some readers wish for things that are not there. I remember reading many times on this siet that people want audio and video that is not available or just doesn’t exist. All the unhappy GM fans, many and most fans imagine they know information about GM but the legality of all the things that go into this kind of reissue is huge and this release back in the day was so big in the U.K. they imagine that those who want bootlegs or any unreleased recordings or want every recording (completists) already have it. Wanting audio or video things like Blu-ray or other sound embellishments would increase the price of a box set that people are already complaining about. The fact that this is now available on vinyl is something significant. Like it or not, I believe these days vinyl buyers are the target not CD buyers…that is why there in no separate CD box set. The great news is everyone has the right to buy or not buy…most that are complaining the loudest are also rejoicing they already own all the music in some form…because Older was extremely well sold in the U.K…and are cheering that they will listen to the music they have now….I think Sony knew and are not worried about the complaints on this site and others…..
There is no ‘vitriol” as far as I can see. Just people giving fairly constructive feedback. Also, the SDE Reader Rating is pure DATA there is no emotion attached to that. Can data gathered by people filling out forms be ‘vitriolic’? I don’t think so.
Everyone agrees it’s great to have the album on vinyl, and that point has been made in the post. But that is about the only good thing in this campaign. More income is generated from CDs in the UK than vinyl, that was confirmed by the BPI in a recent report, so there’s no reason to avoid CDs. Also, if you think “vinyl buyers are the target not CD buyers” why are there FIVE CDs in the box set?
Just because “everyone has the right to buy or not buy” that doesn’t mean that people should forgo the right to feedback and offer an opinion as to WHY they are not going to buy. Sony and team GM should be delighted in getting such valuable feedback for nothing. Maybe I should invoice them?
Yes, but I guess we all have a different feel for what is vitriolic or anger expressed in a post. And numerical ratings like the type here or “data” reflect the attitudes of people according to psychologists. Emotions and feelings influence attitudes…so yes “data” may certainly reflects vitriol or other feelings. Yes CD’s are included not because their important or the target buyers but as a way to increase the price of the Deluxe set. (Similarly on record store day 4/23 Erasure NE-EP Remix is being put on vinyl but they include the CD for the first time and no other reissue as a way to defer the escalating cost of vinyl and charge more…it could be said that is the reason for the CDs included in the George Michael SDE).
But what I say to others all the time…most of the time if you give feedback did someone ask for it? …yes at time record companies check this and other sites for feedback and report adjusting releases. And that can result is some good.. Just because feedback and opinions are given doesn’t mean it will affect change and that it is accurate. Anytime when you have to qualify feedback with “constructive” that is troublesome….constructive to whom? Many times it is destructive and not asked for. I think this site is great for alerting collectors to new releases, bargains and music interviews and history. The complaining and griping are often not helpful in an way
If you don’t like complaining you could stop complaining about other people giving what I found to be fairly balanced and constructive criticism of this product.
I personally love complaining. Even when it isn’t just. But in this case, I was just walking by a church and the pastor himself was telling the congregation the Older Box Set was poorly done. In all seriousness, the only thing worse than a complainer like me, is somebody complaining about somebody else complaining. It’s one of those Oxford Moron things :)
Terrific response, Paul. Respectful, point-driven & accurate. I, like many others who’ve expressed displeasure with the GM reissue, don’t primarily have any issue with the content included or the lack of vaulted content. Our gripe is the lack of a CD only package. I really don’t understand why some people would think that an impractical complaint. For many of us consumers the philosophical issue of whether or not the artist’s wishes of keeping unreleased material as such is a non-issue. Sure, hearing new material would be fantastic, but most of us aren’t really rallying against the directives an artist has left in regards to his property. The very legitimate issue, however, is a pretty large group of George Michael music consumers being alienated by a major record company. I’m not a vinyl consumer & I have no intention of purchasing products I have no practical use for. It’s very realistic for a loyal portion of his fanbase to feel shut out of this marketing campaign by not making this release available to them in a format (a still very mainstream format) that’s conducive to their habits. Really, being annoyed about this not being available in a CD only format is not quite the same thing as, say, people getting ticked off by it not being available in a cassette only format.
Are George’s fans now Older and Wiser? I suppose the chance of a Venn diagram showing any correlation between George’s fans and those of British folk godfather Martin Carthy is rather small (still, it’s all music – you never know :-) ), but I was struck that the £140 price for the 5CD/3LP ‘Older’ set is more than the ‘ballpark RRP figure’ for a 20CD+DVD+book+signed photo ‘Martin Carthy at the BBC’ set that I’m working on for Madfish. It’s frustrating when people in charge of a legacy ‘don’t get it’, isn’t it? It may be the case that there simply isn’t much in the way of unreleased audio in the George vault, of course, which limits the options. Still, putting vinyl and CD together in one box… nobody likes that.
“Putting vinyl and CD together in one box… nobody likes that”
I actually do ! Vinyl, CDs and streaming are a different kind of listening experience.
+1 for putting your opinion out there :) I’d rather have separate CD & vinyl packages, coordinated so they sit well together for people who buy both. But that’s just me. The latest Prince offering seems to be walking the fine line here – there’s an SDE exclusively from the Prince website which basically combines the separately available CD & LP packages, but at least throws in a bigger book, which is a nice thing.
New title for the George Michael release: Fastbuck.