Interview

Martin Fry on The Lexicon of Love

ABC frontman talks to SDE

By Paul Sinclair

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50

The Lexicon of Love is the defining album for ABC and the band’s frontman Martin Fry. The album went to number one for four weeks in July 1982 (replacing Roxy Music’s Avalon) and the British public, in particular, have held a place in their heart for the long-player which features classic singles such as ‘The Look of Love’ and ‘Poison Arrow’.

40 years on from the November 1982 gig at Hammersmith Odeon, ABC continue to perform the album in its entirety, often with the backing of a full orchestra, normally the Southbank Sinfonia, conducted by Anne Dudley (who played keyboards and arranged the strings on the original Trevor Horn-produced studio album).

June 2022’s performance of the album Live at Sheffield City Hall has recently been issued on coloured vinyl and CD and the band have just announced a headline tour for February 2024 which will see them hit the road in the UK once more with Dudley and the orchestra!

On top of all this, next month the studio album is reissued for its (belated) 40th anniversary and there’s a new Dolby Atmos Mix of The Lexicon of Love to enjoy (available on an SDE-exclusive blu-ray audio) thanks to the remixing skills of Steven Wilson.

SDE caught up with Martin Fry recently to discuss the album…

SDE: What do you put the enduring appeal of The Lexicon of Love down to?

Martin Fry: I always say, everybody’s had a broken heart, but that’s just being facetious, really [laughs]. I don’t know. I really am pleasantly surprised.

When you were recording it with Trevor Horn in the studio, did you know you had something special?

Yes. We felt we’d stumbled across something. We felt good. The whole sessions were really positive and upbeat; a lot of fun, a lot of humour there. Each day, I’d go into Sarm East [the recording studio] right at the end of Brick Lane [in East London] and I’d often pop around the corner to Whitechapel Gallery for a sandwich! We’d had a hit with ‘Tears Are Not Enough’ with [producer] Steve Brown, and that got us into the top 20. And we’d approached Trevor, and started recording ‘Poison Arrow’. And that was a hit, that was a top five hit. But whilst we were promoting that, we were also making the album. It was a new experience for one and all because while he’d recorded a few tracks for Dollar, it was the first time he’d produced a whole album for a band. But we were on a positive roll. If you’d asked me then, would that music last more than 15 minutes? No, no way. I had a 10-year period of doing Top of the Pops and being a recording artist, and after that, it was kind of winding down. And, you know, in the 90s, there was Oasis, I’d go and see The Prodigy, and there’s Pulp, and Suede, and I’m thinking, ABC, you know, we don’t fit into this world. Do you know what I mean? We’re a different generation.

That was a common theme, I think, for bands that had enjoyed a fair degree of success in the 80s. The 90s, for many, became kind of like a wilderness period.

We should have developed… I’d love to be able to develop. We made an album called Abracadabra, which about 12 people bought, but it was the kind of early Massive Attack sort of approach to making music with different singers. You know, if we were to go forwards, that’s what we would have mutated into, a production team, but it wasn’t to be. But at the start, we’d go around Sheffield telling everyone that ABC were going to be incredible. You know, that’s a big part of being in a band, getting drunk, talking bullshit and bigging yourself up. Liam Gallagher did it brilliantly. You got to realise that Oasis were going to be massive before they were massive.

Trevor Horn is very complimentary about your lyrics, on The Lexicon of Love.

Is he? I’ve never read his book. I’m a bit scared to read it!

There’s nothing bad in there! Where did your lyric-writing skills come from?

I’ve always love lyrics, always… from Motown through to Bowie, Bolan. “I drive a Rolls Royce because it’s good for my voice”, what a lyric that is from Bolan, and “But you won’t fool the children of the revolution”. He kind of knew he was cheeky, and heading down a cul-de-sac with that approach. You knew punk rock was gonna happen, but yeah, I’ve always loved [great] lyrics. I like banal stuff, that’s really deep, if you know what I mean? Trevor is a pretty good lyricist himself, by the way. I saw him about 12 months ago; we were on a cruise ship with about 5,000 crazy ’80s music fans and he was playing with Dire Straits! He always liked JG Ballard. He had a song called ‘Vermillion Sands’ [named after a 1971 collection of short stories by JG Ballard].

I know that song very well. It’s on the second Buggles album [Adventures in Modern Recording].

He pushed me. Trevor pushed me to the limit when we were recording. In fact, he is one of the few guys I have ever worked with who was interested in the lyrics because sometimes you work with great people, but it’s like, “right, we’ve done the tracks. We’ll leave you to do the vocals and we’ll be back in two day’s time”.

Yeah, he’s interested in the song isn’t he not just the production? I think that’s the thing…

It’s the whole thing, isn’t it?

After The Lexicon of Love, he developed this reputation of taking three months to do one track. Mainly because of Frankie Goes Hollywood and Grace Jones. But what was it like with you? Was it reasonably quick?

Two things were at play [later on]. Trevor owned the studio, so once he got to Sarm West, at Basing Street, if Frankie Goes to Hollywood took three months, he was producing the record, but he was also the landlord [laughs]. Do you know what I mean? But when you have success, you’ve got to chase it again. It’s hard, isn’t it? You know, you’ve painted the Sistine Chapel and then you kind of wait for the paint to dry on the next one!

But with ABC, he was being employed by your record company to do a job. So he couldn’t be too self indulgent, could he, because he had to kind of get it done?

The sessions would go week-by-week. If we couldn’t work in Sarm East, because somebody else was using it, we’d have to go down the road to Tony Visconti’s Good Earth studio [in Dean Street] or we’d go to RAK Studios [near Regent’s Park] for two days. So we were constantly moving around. But the recordings took about, I don’t know, about 10-11 weeks, something like that. When Trevor then became the auteur, when he became ‘the producer, Trevor Horn’, you know, people talk about his mythology, but he needed a lot of time to make something like ‘Slave to the Rhythm’, didn’t he? It’s an incredible record, with that Go-Go beat. But I’ve done it myself. I’ve gone into the hall of mirrors, because you want to recreate your success. You hear stories of Scritti and Tears For Fears spending a long time. It’s different now, the process is different, isn’t it?

But I should say, the experience with Trevor was great. And he got the BRIT Award and all that, but he was never like a Phil Spector, you know, brandishing a gun! He always had a great team; he surrounded himself by skilled people in the studio and still does to this day.

ABC performed The Lexicon of Love Live in Sheffield in June 2022 (click image to enlarge)

Talking of his team, Anne Dudley is still working with you on stage, conducting the orchestral live performances, and she was obviously part of the original record. Tell us about working with Anne and your relationship with her?

Well, we had a band; Mark White was a guitarist, but he was also pretty handy on keys, but Anne came in and she played some Grand Piano and she was a much more tutored pianist. So she had a sophistication in playing, and so she came in and played some keys. And we’d hang out, and I remember Trevor said, “Oh, this would be great if we put strings on it”. And we loved The Temptations, you know, ‘Just My Imagination’… all those great string arrangements. Anne said “I’m gonna go home tonight, and I’ll put something together” – she could read and write music, of course. She came in the next morning [with her arrangement] and that gave us all the confidence to book a string session in.

Anne Dudley was a really young, very skilled musician, but to take that next step to become an arranger was something else

Martin Fry

It was brand new territory for all of us. When I think back, Anne was a really young, very skilled musician, but to take that next step to become an arranger, was something else. And I always forget, through the years I’ve been working with her, how many records she’s made and she’s an incredible conductor, arranger and obviously there’s her film work as well [Dudley won an Oscar for her score for the 1997 film, The Full Monty].

It must be nice, all these years later, to still be working together?

Yeah, it is. It’s a great feeling that there’s a continuity there. When you come to play with an orchestra, you don’t want to get swamped. So many bands just kind of disappear; you can’t hear the band. I watched Paul Weller sing with an orchestra and it didn’t quite click for me. You have to find yourself a role, you can’t just sit on a stool and sort of croon. So with Anne she’s definitely perfected the parts from the shows we were doing 10 years ago, we’ve gone back and revised things. So that everything shines: the band and the orchestra. There’s a real art to that.

She’s got that pop sensibility that maybe classical people might not have.

Well, when we recorded ‘The Night You Murdered Love’, we worked with different arrangers, and sometimes the arrangements would be really busy. We liked Chic! I asked Bernard Edwards and Nile Rodgers how they did it, and they just did it off bass and piano. The strings on those records are fantastic. But Anne is fantastic, as everybody knows!

Pre-order The Lexicon of Love on blu-ray audio via the SDE shop

You’ve just released The Lexicon of Love Live in Sheffield and it’s available on coloured vinyl and a couple of different CD deluxe editions.

We wanted to document the gigs and we knew Sheffield was going to be a magical night but I didn’t want to go and record 14 shows and edit it all together and auto tune it and all that [laughs]. I just wanted a mint recording of what we’re about, because the shows have developed well. It’s a great feeling playing in 2022 and 2023, with the Southbank Sinfonia and Anne. And it’s a catalogue of all this stuff, really. It’s a two hour show, because we play The Lexicon of Love in its entirety and then our other hits.

The new Atmos Mix is incredible. Hearing it was like being in the recording session, a unique experience

Martin Fry

You don’t get fed up with playing The Lexicon of Love all the time?

Well, if we go to America, we might only play a couple of songs off it. There’s other songs we’ve had that have been hits; there’s a song called ‘Be Near Me’, which was a big hit for us. People imagine the original version to have been as string-driven as the version we play now, but the live performance now is on steroids, really. It’s a full orchestra, we never had that luxury back in the day. We had bits. Smoke and mirrors, really.

As well as the Live in Sheffield album, The Lexicon of Love is being reissued on vinyl for its 40th anniversary and there’s a new Dolby Atmos version which will be available on blu-ray. I believe you went to Steven Wilson’s house and heard it. What did you think?

I hadn’t heard any of the mixes, but obviously his reputation goes before him. I knew his music and I knew that he was the kind of ‘go to’ guy for Atmos. So I sat in his studio and I tell you, it was so bizarre. It was like sitting in Sarm East, you know, with Gary Langan on one side and Trevor on the other! [laughs]. I know I’m a sad old man with his memories, but it was crystal clear, it was like being inside the recording session. Yeah. And I swear, he played it through in its entirety, and heard things I can’t recall hearing, like some guitar parts. ‘Tears Are Not Enough’ was a real eye-opener, it was incredible. Some of Mark White’s guitar parts were incredible. I guess they got compressed out when the album came out on vinyl. It was really nice, it was a really unique experience.

Thanks to Martin Fry who was talking to Paul Sinclair for SDE.

Pre-order the Dolby Atmos Mix of The Lexicon of Love on the limited edition SDE-exclusive blu-ray audio via the SDE shop using this link or the button below. It’s released on 4 August 2023. Live at Sheffield can be ordered via the LiveHereNow website. Sign-up for the Feb 2024 Tour pre-sale access here.

TECHNICAL NOTES: This blu-ray audio requires a blu-ray player. Decoding the Dolby Atmos mix requires a Dolby Atmos-certified soundbar or a Dolby Atmos-compatible AV Receiver/Amp. The Dolby Atmos mix will ‘fold down’ to 5.1 or stereo if a Dolby Atmos decoder is not detected.
EU SHIPPING NOTES: If you are ordering from the EU please be aware that that goods may be subject to import VAT when they arrive from the UK. The prices the SDE shop charge you do not include VAT

Tracklisting

The Lexicon of Love ABC / 40th anniversary

    • SDE Blu-ray Audio
      The Lexicon of Love in the following audio mixes:
      1. Steven Wilson Dolby Atmos Mix
      2. Steven Wilson DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 mix (96/24)
      3. Steven Wilson Stereo Mix in hi-res stereo (96/24)
      4. Steven Wilson Stereo Instrumental mix in hi-res stereo (96/24)
      5. Original 1982 stereo mix in hi-res stereo (96/24)
      The Lexicon of Love
      1. Show Me
      2. Poison Arrow
      3. Many Happy Returns
      4. Tears Are Not Enough
      5. Valentine’s Day
      6. The Look of Love (Part One)
      7. Date Stamp
      8. All of My Heart
      9. 4 Ever 2 Gether
      10. The Look of Love (Part Four)

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50 Comments

50 thoughts on “Martin Fry on The Lexicon of Love”

  1. In light of the comments concerning vinyl/box set pricing…and the additional scarves, marbles etc, cast an eye to ABC & other bands VIP packages..mostly in tbe region of £100, a ‘backstage pass’ laminate, a gig poster/ flyer also laminated (ooooh) a set list ….wow. In the case of Birmingham 3 rows of £40 seats in the nose bleed section of Symphony Hall or £70 & no laminates for the rest of the hall. To see a gig I have seen 3 times already? Nope Mr.Fry, listen to my sde blu ray instead..with a beer & a laminated copy of the gig flyer I made myself.

  2. I’m happy to say I was one of the 12 who bought Abracadabra in 1991. It’s still one of my most-played ABC albums, along with Up and Beauty Stab. Of course I adore LOL and the 12″ singles that preceded it, but it’s suffered a little from over-exposure for me. I too would love for the other six of their first seven albums to be given the super-deluxe treatment.

    1. Loved the music, but far too much chat. I mean, between every song! Mind you, as this has been recorded, let’s have a music only version out on Bluray and / or DVD please.

  4. I really enjoyed this interview, thanks Paul.
    The only ABC I remember hearing in Australia in the 80s were Poison Arrow, Look Of Love, All Of My Heart and When Smokey Sings, all great songs. I was about 10-11 when Lexicon Came Out and I enjoyed hearing Poison Arrow on a various artists compilation record I had called Rocktrip ‘82. I bought a second-hand copy of Lexicon in the 90s. A brilliant album (it seems every song ends in an echoing crescendo!).
    Going by the comments here about Beauty Stab, Zillionaire and Be Near Me it seems I have some catching up to do.
    I tend to say this every few months but thanks for this website and for your work, Paul.

  7. What a humble man! While The Lexicon Of Love is in my top 10 all time albums (I can’t wait to play the instrumental album mix!), it amazes me that Alphabet City hasn’t been properly reissued. It’s a really good album, one of my first albums I bought on CD in the 80’s. It so much deserves an expanded reissue with all the remixes they released at that time. With everything that’s been reissued over the years, it surprises me this album has been completely ignored.

    1. There was a deluxe edition for this about 15 years ago. Not per se the standards of what people on this site want but yes, an expanded edition.
      I had a 12” for King Without a Crown, I want to say it was a UK release. It had three live tracks on the b-side and I swear that 12” had the best sound of any vinyl I ever had back when I bought things on vinyl.

  9. “All Of My Heat”, one of my all-tines. Also one of the handful of songs I wish played on for a few more minutes. It’s running time of just about 5 minutes is too short for my ears.

  10. Would be nice if the non Lexicon part of the show was different, as the last tours always seem to feature the same set but in a different order. Plenty of other great tunes to play for us Martin.

  11. I love ABC. The six albums from 1982 to 1991 are the most consistent run of any of my favourite bands. Lexicon of Love is one of the top ten albums of all time imho. But…

    For heavens sake Martin and whoever owns Mercury Phonogram (and EMI) catalogue, release and talk about the other five occasionally please! It is a crying shame that the other five have not been better served and as one of the bands who best used remix culture in the 80s, there is a reasonable sized audience for some well compiled 3CD sets (bar Beauty Stab, which probably doesn’t have the material!)

    I’m a bit lexiconed out…

  12. “Well, if we go to America, we might only play a couple of songs off it. ” Oh please Martin, let’s make this a reality!

  13. Great interview, Paul. I do love Martin and LOL obviously. But I reckon that’ll be the third tour of it he’s done with Anne and orchestra in the last four or five years.

    I know it towers over the rest of the catalogue and let’s him play bigger venues but it would be so great to hear all of “Beauty Stab” or “Zillionaire” done live for a change.

    1. I agree that a performance of Beauty Stab complete would be something I’d love to see. To be honest I preferred that album to LOL and thought it was more experimental and certainly more rocky “Arc Angel” and the excellent Guitar work is a major departure and it for me is easily the equal of the first album. Count me in if they ever tour it fully as it is tremendous work. If you ever do an Atmos of that Paul that surely would be a good seller!!.

      1. Hi WayneC
        Totally agree with your comments about Beauty Stab.
        As much as I love LOL I’d love Martin to relive this 1983 album (not even sure if they toured with this album) and play it in concert in it’s entirety
        It’s my go to album as far as ABC is concerned
        I believe a lot of ABC fans who love LOL and put off a little by the drastic change that BS offered may well reappraise it if they were to hear it live.

        1. Yes your correct Moni, how I got those two mixed up is beyond me – well Beauty Stab for sure is more Rocky than Alphabet City “songs like Power of Persuasion / Loves a Dangerous Language maybe directed me to think that brilliant track was on “Stab” it would of gone great on that album. Thanks for picking me up on it though, I do have all of them. I remember vividly at the time getting Stab as part of my introductory offer on the old record subscription site – think it was called Britannia Records but someone on here will remember for sure!. Amazing what memories buying Lp’s brings back!.

  15. What a humble, class act Mr. Fry is. “there’s a song called ‘Be Near Me’…” Um, yeah, we know it. Thanks for a lovely interview, Paul.

    2. Growing up in Europe I did not know the song until I heard the remix on vacation in LA as a 14 year old. I was completely blown away by it and searched for it everywhere. Eventually I found the 12” on Sunset, still have it and play it regularly, good memories.

  16. Martin always comes across as a real gentleman. Loved Lexicon of Love but also Beauty Stab and the revolutionary How To Be a Zillionaire ( which I always bracket with Cupid & Psyche 85 as a state of the art , pristine LP .)
    He was also apparently at the famous Sex Pistols concerts in Manchester back in the 70s. Mind blowing how many artists were inspired by those gigs.

  17. A lovely man and a lovely interview. They deserved so much more success with Beauty Stab and How to be a Zillionaire. I’m glad the calvary came over the hill and Be Near Me became huge stateside. I’m so looking forward to my Blu-ray! Can we have Beauty Stab next?

      1. Indeed, that’s one of my favourite tracks, too. Beauty Stab was the first ABC album I bought. I’m a huge fan of By Default By Design, United Kingdom and Bite the Hand too and I can listen to the entire album forever. I’d love to hear it in Atmos. I can just imagine Bite the Hand pumping out of my speakers, literally filling the room and then breaking into that astonishing guitar solo. Sigh. Please can we have Beauty Stab and Zillionaire on Blu-ray too? Imagine Fear of the World in Cinemascope in spatial sound. We are living in the best of all possible worlds.

        1. I’d certainly be in for an Atmos BD of Beauty Stab. An underrated gem. They were always on a hiding to nothing though trying to follow up LOL.

          I’ve never actually listened to Zillionaire – time to investigate?

          1. Definitely. You should be able to get an expanded version with loads of remixes for not very much.

          2. It’s a stone cold classic. From the initial clashing drums of Fear of the World right up to the sumptuous closing of Between You and Me, Zillionaire us a deeply satisfying listen. The lyrics are brilliant – let’s ignore Vanity Kills – and there’s a wealth of oblique political commentary. Tower of London includes a reference to the murder of PC Yvonne Fletcher and Mr Fry is disappointed and feels very much deceived by society but is hopefully and optimistic at the same time. Musically, Be Near Me is closest to the songs of Lexicon and was written back then apparently but How to be a Millionaire is the real gem. The use of synths and the added guitar in the album version is sublime. My favourite is all of it. Even the remixes are brilliant and I’d definitely want to have What’s Your Destination, the Nickel and Dime of Millionaire and the Munich Disco Mix of Be Near Me as well as the extended Tower of London. Happy days. Lucky you, you have so much to discover and – I hope – delight in. Dynasty, decadence and despair are the themes of Zillionaire, it’s informed by the worst of the 80s but sustained by Mr Fry’s belief in the perfectionability of man and it’s music in Technicolour. Watch the videos, too.

      2. If I Ever Thought You’d Be Lonely is my fave. Roxy Music’s on loan rhythm section sounds awesome . Put me down for a Beauty Stab Blu-ray!

  18. Many people forget what an audicious/ risk taking band ABC where in terms of the changes especially on the first few albums. That’s how I like to think of them.

    Overdue to invest in a surround system. A few in the SDE series purchased now Need to bite the bullet after buying Lexicon- one of the greatest pop albums of all time

  19. We should have developed… I’d love to be able to develop. We made an album called Abracadabra, which about 12 people bought…

    Abracadabra is an excellent album—it should have been huge. For years, it was my favorite ABC album. Then again, Abracadabra lacks drama, whereas The Lexicon of Love bursts at the seams with it; if Lexicon is a breakup, then Abracadabra is new-found happiness. In any event, Abracadabra is an underrated classic.

    1. I would love to hear a lot of UP (which was recently digitially re-released on Amazon US in the deluxe format) redone/revisited, there’s some fine tunes on there buried in the sound d’jour. Abracadabra doesn’t suffer as badly however could benefit from the same treatment (and oddly doesn’t appear to be part of the stateside reissue campaign for the deluxe ones).

        2. I stopped asking him about it on FB about a year into COVID when the teased release date blew by. I’ve learned that things he works on come out when they do and just tune out the rest of the chatter.

    3. Martin is being far too modest about his past work….for my money, ABC *did* develop…they took more risks than almost any other pop band of the 80s….in sound, in mood, in image and even in line-ups. I was one of those 12 people who bought Abracadabra as well – it’s such a sumptuous, gorgeous album that you can wallow in…released at the height of that hot summer of 1991. They were exploring that Deep House sound and those grooves before most other UK acts.

      Wonderful interview, though…it must have been an absolute pleasure to talk to Martin. He’s one of my musical idols. His grasp of pop history through the decades is always spot on. Can’t wait for the Lexicon SDE Blu-ray! It’ll only be my sixth version of the album.

    4. Wow, I’m so happy to be one of the 12 that bought it when it came out! Hahahaha & I’m in Omaha, NE USA. I also bought the Say It CD Single and the UK import of Love Conquers All. I thought it was an excellent album then and still think it has stood the test of time. It was a welcome blast of synth pop at a time when a lot of music was getting very dark and depressing.

  21. Thanks Paul, nice interview. I’m sure a friend of mine attended a concert last year for a Sky Arts special. No idea when it’s due to be broadcast.

    1. I was going to post on the SDE ABC Blu-ray thread about this, it’s on this friday in the uk sky arts at 10pm part of the greatest hits albums live series, there’s been 2 on already, dexys too rye ay and stereophonics just enough education, after abc there’s simple minds, Gregory porter and Peter frampton

  22. Thanks for that excellent interview.

    Love the idea of actually going to the Dolby Atmos engineer’s house to listen to the mix for the first time. How cool is that!

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