Saturday Deluxe / 10 February 2018

Well….here’s the the thing I’ve noticed: if people want physical music, they opt for vinyl. If they want digital, they go for iTunes / Google Play.

It IS possible to like and get digital music, that ISN’T streaming.

My computer is my “main stereo. I rip CDs to it”, and they just mostly sit on the shelves afterwards. Because of that, I hardly get CDs anymore. Also, around the late 2000s – early 2010s, CDs have been so badly packaged it’s silly. No, I don’t want my disc to SLIDE out of something, thank you very much.I get the whole eco-friendliness thing, but come on: cases are supposed to protect discs, not damage them JUST by taking them out and putting them back in. I’ve opted to get which albums I’ve wanted via iTunes (say what you want about Apple, I’ve had an iPod in 2007, and have stuck with the brand ever since. For me, it works). Plus, usually (but not always) a digital album release happens before the CD counterpart, and the cost is easier on the wallet.

oh, and I’ve got vinyl as well, though purchases on THAT are usually reserved for my fav FAV music (much like how and why some book buyers get hardback as well as paperback). So…I choose my battle.s For instance, I wouldn’t get Mothership by Led Zep through iTunes: I’ve got the vinyl edition.

I hope my comments offered some insight as to what type of music listener I am, and why.

I haven’t read through all the comments (and ignoring any debates about Vinyl vs. CD) there’s something about CD vs. Streaming/ downloading that people don’t mention: streamed music can disappear at the whim of the rights holder. (Equally downloaded music certainly used to have licence issues and, of the less than 20 downloads I’ve made, at least 3 have since ceased to play due to licence restrictions.)

Imagine in 5-10 years time – everybody’s dumped their CDs, vinyl, and cassettes and relies solely on streaming – and then, for example, Kate Bush finds God, she decides all her back catalogue is tainted or evil, then removes them from all streaming services…. there’d just be the first 3 albums left available. Or perhaps Bryan Ferry manages to massively offend UMC and to punish him they remove all Roxy Music and Ferry tracks.

Obviously pretty far-fetched except… in April 2016 Radiohead pulled a vast chunk of their back catalogue from streaming services. Have all those tracks returned?

Streaming services fundamentally change the power balance between company/ artist and consumer: effectively returning to an almost pre-Modern idea of being allowed to enjoy the music for as long as the artist or company feel you are fit, proper or worthy to do so.

Streaming is like a CD or LP that the copyright holder is allowed to enter your home and take back at any time they like.

(Although I’m not sure I’d be too unhappy if Kate Bush came round my home! Mr. Yorke might be a bit of a downer – perhaps a good strong cupper and chocolate biscuit might cheer him.)

I agree with the other SDE bloggers assertion that the recording industry is trying to force the phase-out of compact discs. The industry did the same thing with vinyl records back in the early 80’s, leaving the consumer no choice, but to buy CDs or cassettes. Now, with younger people more interested in the portability of their music using smart phones and mp3 players, I believe the physical product being released is aimed at older music fans in their 40’s and 50’s who prefer to listen to their music at home on superior sound equipment. Additionally, this older demographic is loyal to recording artists they grew up with, are willing to dedicate their undivided attention to an album played at home on superior playback equipment and, most importantly, have the means (or at least the willingness) to invest in SDE box sets and remastered vinyl. I feel sorry for new artists trying to get established in the market place and build a wide fan base, since it appears record executives are becoming more unwilling to promote them. Sadly, this paradigm shift is resulting in many new talented musicians and performers ending up as a one-time ‘flash in the pan’, if their lucky to even get that.

I asked the Staff of HMV if they had anything by The Doors, the reply – a fire bucket and security staff.

I do vinyl, CD and stream mostly. I’m not a fan of the tape cassette much now.

I don’t own a CD player, vinyl and streaming only.
Streaming for playlists and checking out new music, vinyl my main purchase and listening format.
All working well until last weeks Roxy Music SDE, nothing to play the discs on :-(
Apart from that I don’t miss not having a CD player and haven’t bought CDs in years.

Here in Belgium and France, we still have FNAC and Media Markt stocking a large selection of CD’s and not only the most popular or commercial titles. Media Markt in downtown Brussels now has a larger area for vinyl than for CD’s which is remarkable knowing that Media Markt is mostly a white goods/computer store. It also comes down to the guys behind the counter who have a good musical knowledge. Trend is towards independent shops selling a mix of new and second hand records with a focus on vinyl but also selling CD’s. With the declining numbers (minus 18.5% in the US and minus 20% in the UK last year), CD’s from major labels will disappear by 2020/2021 but I believe that CD’s from smaller labels might still be released if pressing plants still run. I’m also in favour of indie labels and artist selling directly from their web sites and earning more money than by selling through Amazon.

Not sure I understand on what you’re basing your assumption of 2000 sales for Roxy being majority superdeluxe? What about the vinyl? And the 2CD version was going for £12.99 in many places on release week, surely that would have tempted a hefty amount of people? Especially those in store, who could physically see the nice quality 2CD packaging, and might have presumed they were getting some new, “definitive” remaster to boot, as the packaging says nothing about the fact the main album 1999 CD master is what’s inside.

I really worry that the “death of the CD” is more of a self-fulfilling prophecy than it is an actual, organic event. The line keeps being repeated again and again–“no one wants CDs”– so stores cut back on their floor space for them. But when I stand in line at stores or shop in these sections, I don’t see the evidence to back it up that “no one wants CDs.” In fact, I tend to see quite a few people who are frustrated that they can’t find the CDs they are looking for.

While it would seem that CD sales are down in the US, most indicators are that people in non-urban areas prefer physical media. But those are the places that are least likely to have independent record stores, and so buyers rely in large chains. but the chains are cutting out their shelf space. At the same time, many rural areas don’t have access to high-speed internet, so streaming music isn’t a very viable option. So what are you supposed to do if you don’t live in a major metropolitan area? (Hello Amazon.)

I would rather buy my music in a brick-and-mortar store. But the closest independent retailer is over an hour’s drive from my house. In town, I have my choice of Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart, and FYE. The manager at FYE has told me repeatedly that she keeps asking for more stock for CDs and DVDs/Blu Rays because she can’t keep up with demand, but the corporate headquarters tells her there’s no point since there’s no market for it. She actually has numbers proving them wrong, and they still won’t send her the stock.

On the anecdotal level, I talk to people all the time–not just fellow fanatics–who want physical copies, but it’s getting harder to find the players, and cars have begun phasing out CD decks. It feels like the industry really wants to push downloads on us, whether we want them or not–and why not? There’s no overhead for manufacture in that case. You upload it to a server, and it’s the same cost whether it sells ten copies or ten million–and all the more profit for corporate pricks who figure they can groom the market to buy whatever they want them to if it means more money in their pockets.

Interesting article.
I’m not at all concerned with bestBuy no longer carrying CDs as they were never my go-to shop. I’m more upset to learn of local, independent music suppliers closing than these big chains that dabble in music retail. If Urban Outfitters stop selling vinyl, it also wouldn’t phase me one bit.
I believe the issue ultimately stems from the fact that the music industry no longer support any truly creative and uniquely talented artists.
The industry sign and support those who are strategically formulated to a specific demographic and the majority of “product” that we are given represents the ultimate low end of music produced … and who would want to buy that? Download that one song from that flash in the pan artist and be gone with the physical product because the artist simply doesn’t have anything worthy of a purchase.
Apart from already established acts that I have supported for years, I can’t recall that last time I purchased an album from a “new” artist. These super deluxe editions are pretty much what keeps the physical product afloat.
On a side note, I used to work for HMV and I can honestly say that our “Top 30” wall (located near the entrance) was not at all an accurate representation as to the top selling CDs. The first 10 in the list would be specially marked down in price and placed there by companies who made a deal with HMV and decided to push a particular act to recoup their losses… so your average consumer walks over to check out the wall and says “wtf is this and why is it #1? never heard of it before but at $12.99 I will check it out” and then it sells. Not all the CDs that were flying off the shelves were on the Top 30 wall. It was all simply a ploy and marketing scheme.

Dissapointing but not unexpected with Best Buy. As others have said, their CD section has been reduced multiple times over the last 5 years or so. While I didn’t rely on them for all my CD purchases, they would often have new releases on sale for a good price (most recently Liam Gallagher). Time was, they would stock new releases from such labels as Yep Roc and Matador…..now nothing like that at all. I’m fortunate that I have two GREAT independent record stores near my job and home, in which I frequent at least once a week.

JB Hi-Fi here in Australia still has a really decent and sizable CD section divided into Alternative, Dance, Urban, Soundtrack, Various Artists, Jazz, 50s & 60s, and Pop. They don’t always get in the deluxe editions or individual releases I want but its clearly doing very well so I don’t think the CD is quite done yet.

Short-sighted fools – the comeback of the CD will be huge! At least I hope so …

Amazon has a pretty good selection of CDs. Anybody know about them?

Agreed with the comments concerning the Roxy Music Deluxe box set. Pure greed and robbery by Universal and taking advantage of the hard core music fan. A great example of value for money on these deluxe reissues would be the way Robert Fripp has controlled the rights to all of the King Crimson material. Amazing Box sets that set an example when it becomes all about value for money as well as the focus on the music.

I was saddened to see that Best Buy will stop selling CDs this summer. It’s my preferred way of listening to music.

But word of advice for those millennium hipsters. Don’t expect vinyl to be around much longer either.

It’s a niche product as well with more people streaming & listening to their iPhones than will ever buy a vinyl album.

On the Quincy interview, what session was he at that Ringo was replaced by a session drummer?
We know George Martin replaced him with Andy White on Love Me Do but I’ve never heard or read about him being replaced again , except by one of the Beatles .

I can only speak from my small world in Calgary, Canada, but the Best Buys here are so overpriced on any CDs other than top 10, that it is insulting. Target came in and then left completely, but in their short stay, their CD prices were even higher. Both stores have/had disorganized stock, poorly displayed, and often not in any kind of order. And certainly hardly any stock, if at all, of non-hit titles. Canada has its own chain across the country now, Sunrise Records, that took over many of the abandoned HMV stores (yes, they left too). They, like HMV, are pushing movies and vinyl, but CDs seem to be an afterthought at best, though they do carry some of the more obscure releases, if inconsistently. Are store owners basing their stock levels on actual non-sale performance, or listening to the gloom and doom and creating their own lower sales? I would bet that if someone came in here with some money, and decided to replicate the stores we hear about in Europe (thanks Paul) they could make a real go of it.

I live in Orlando FL and do all my physical CD shopping at my local thrift store for$0.99 each. Sad – There is supposed to be a decent record store approx 35 miles away on the other side of town where I usually don’t go. Never been there and I live here for 9 years.

I remembered I read this back in January about sales in the UK. Further down the article, beyond the headline grab, it states that CD sales were 41.6 million, which in any other industry would be probably deemed a success.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42541440

Some good comments attached as well.

None of us will live forever, so even if CDs vanish (eventually) it just means picking over the vast second hand market and finally listening to all the stuff we bought and didn’t have quite enough time for, that should still keep us busy:) I discover plenty of ‘new’ stuff via my local charity shop, can’t go wrong at £2 a throw…

I recently purchased the picture disc of the Simple Minds album and was unimpressed that there was no inner pvc sleeve to hold the disc. If you remove the shrink wrap, the playing surface is exposed and liable to be damaged if you don’t put the whole thing in an outer PVC sleeve. Might not seem a big deal to some, but something as basic as that should be a given (everyone else managed it) as I didn’t spend £25 on an ornament

I live in San Jose, California. It’s about 50 miles south of San Francisco. In San Francisco, we have an Amoeba location (it was actually opened before Los Angeles) and in San Jose, we have an indie shop called Streetlight (slightly larger than, say, Sister Ray). There is a car park with 50 spots. I went today on a Saturday afternoon and couldn’t park. Why am I mentioning all of this? It can only mean great things that Best Buy, Target, etc. aren’t carrying CDs. I couldn’t care less about a mass produced Justin Timberlake album anyway. In my indie store, people still buy CDs (along with vinyl records). The resurgance of vinyl is what’s kept these stores busy, but CDs are still alive in these spots. Downloading and streaming are popular, but they’re most popular by the demographic that would buy things sold at BestBuy and Target and not at my indie shop. BestBuy would never carry the Roxy Music CD mentioned in this article. It’s Bruno Mars, Taylor Swift, Justin Timberlake, Kendrick Lamar – and if you’re lucky Metallica. Kendrick Lamar is also massively popular in the indie shops. It’s wonderful news that these chains will stop carrying CDs because it means they’ll stop carrying music and the indie shop will have more power with the labels. My two cents.

Hi Paul, will there be a SDE of the “Wedding Album” by any chance? I am hoping so and if not maybe a reissue of some kind on vinyl or deluxe cd.

I still remember the days when I used to drive over to the nearest Best Buy every Tuesday evening after work to purchase the new releases for that week, seems like a lifetime ago now. The world has changed so much and directly or indirectly we have all contributed to that in some fashion. Best Buy had a big hand in killing the “mom and pop” music stores and now Amazon has more or less done the same to them. I am not worried about them cause they will always find something else to “sell” – they never specialized in anything.

I guess everyone who visits this site needs some breathing space to completely listen to their vast collections anyway :)

In the same way that American hifi journalist Michael Fremer has been the main force (and public face) for the vinyl records revival, the Compact Disc format needs a similar person to lead the Compact Disc revival, and Paul Sinclair, you are the ideal man for the job. YOU ARE THE ONE!

Buy from local independent stores, not massive big box stores like Best Buy, Target or Walmart.

Wow, more money than sense for many on the Roxy set.I have yet to see one person quantify the content with price. I was mainly aghast at it because of the precedent it might set going forward. As a long time fan who has waited for deluxe treatment of their albums it’s shocking how it was produced. TFF and Simple Minds showed how to do these right by fans and make some money. It’s not even about having the money, I just couldn’t do it almost out of self respect. I would have bought every album by them deluxed out in the TFF style and price, now I won’t buy anything by them ever again.

I suspect that while CDs of the latest acts (the ones that mainly appeal to those who stream music) may well die out, I doubt established acts with an older fan base will stop releasing them. These lucrative deluxe and super deluxe editions that this website celebrates will still be issued. The record companies would be shooting themselves in both feet (and indeed, their heads) if they stopped physical formats altogether. The likes of Sam Smith’s, Adele’s or Ed Sheeran’s latest albums might be streamable or downloadable only but we can live without their CDs, can’t we?

I will always seek out physical product, and support those who provide it. I do hope blu ray audio gets another chance. As an aside, congrats to Saxon who hit the UK top 30 album chart this week for the first time since 1984! Be interesting to see where the new Judas Priest hits in March!

Quincy Jones was a Great Read
Can’t get much more honest or outspoken. At 85, you can say what you want.

I’ve definitely noticed a severe reduction in both quantity and attentiveness to the CD display at my local Best Buy. What was once multiple rows and excellent organization a few years ago has become a partial row and extreme disorganization now. It was like they didn’t care about CDs anymore so this announcement is absolutely no surprise to me. I order most of my CDs online now but I still get some at my local Barnes and Noble – I wouldn’t be surprised to see them follow suit in the near future. No matter as I will always love and collect CDs – I’ll just have to get them all online eventually.

That was to be expected w Best Buy. They didn’t have any Best Buy only offerings anymore. Target going the same route I’m afraid. Their cd section is getting smaller and smaller.

Im not bothered by my kids listening to streaming. That’s progress, things evolve. Their kids will be listening to music a different way again. What I am fearing though is that listening to high quality music output will become a thing of the past. Listening to Depeche Mode in 5.1 now. Nothing better than 5.1. but todays 5.1 offerings are extremely small. They couldn’t even bother to put a 5.1 mix in the Tango In The Night SDE! Im trying to buy some albums on Blu-Ray and SACD and you have to be careful what you buy because many are in 2.0 in stead of 5.1. I wish they would release more multichannel media.

Can’t wait for the DD article! The Duran website did a great in depth article with comments from the band & other key players in the making of the album a few years back. It’s a fantastic album & a all singing all dancing reissue boxset is long overdue. 1st time I saw them live was the subsequent tour & they were brilliant!

Of greater alarm to CD collectors is the news that America’s two biggest CD pressing plants are set to cease operations by mid-2018. They are CINRAM(Formerly WEA Manufacturing in Olyphant,Pennsylvania) & Sony’s DADC(Digital Audio Disc Corporation), formely CBS Records in Terre Haute,Indiana.

If you enjoyed the Vulture interview with Quincy Jones, you should check out the even longer one at GQ: Quincy Jones Has A Story About That

https://www.gq.com/story/quincy-jones-has-a-story

It’s just as entertaining as the Vulture one, but much, much longer.

Thank you Jakob. Your comment on Best Buy nailed it. As for Quincy Jones dissing The Beatles, all he ever did was produce Thriller, & that made his ego so large it led him to believe his opinions on music actually matter.

But WTF do I know?, I’m just a fan..

Remember when Boots and WH Smith used to sell records? The world will still keep turning…

For those that may have missed this:-

“In the two weeks leading up to Christmas, HMV sold one in three of all CDs and DVDs in the UK, overtaking internet rival Amazon.”

http://www.cityam.com/207285/hmv-beats-amazon-and-reclaims-top-spot-britains-biggest-retailer-physical-music

The Quincey interview, is one of the best, interesting and informative piece I have read in not just years, but decades, he has nothing to loose, so tells it like it is. He is probably the most diversely experienced musician/producer alive to day, he has seen it all.

The reality is Best Buy quit selling CD’s years ago, the selection in most stores was reduced to a couple small racks instead of the rows they used to occupy. Sorry I don’t like streaming I like something to hold and own. I used to be a regular at B.B. now rarely go, likely 90% less than when they had a real selection. Likely will rarely go now.

In reality Best Buy over here quit selling CD’s years ago, the selection has been extremely limited for several years, same for Target and other mass retailers. I likely cut my visits to Best Buy by 90%, soon to be almost never.

Best Buy over the last six years has shrunk their CD section 3 times – it is now about 10$ what it was in their heyday. As a buyer of older CDs I found that the small section doesn’t even get top-shelf reissues and deluxe editions like the Fleetwood Mac or Eagles albums. And if they do they never restock them.

I used to buy 2-3 discs a week from Best Buy. I would still if they had ’em. But they haven’t served my demographic for years. Probably can’t blame ’em, but seems like us older folks are the ones who are the in-the-pocket buyers for hardcopy media.

I love CD’s. Just as well that I live in the UK then, where the format is alive and well.

CD’s will exist as long as transports are made. Worry when they are not, because unlike turntables I doubt they can be made by smaller hi-fi makers. Most CD players / Blu-ray players are using transports made by the big boys anyway (my last Arcam was using a Sanyo transport).

I really do not understand why Simple Minds get good reviews, they didn’t make a good record.

Are music buyers shopping at Best Buy (for music) though? I mean, I’ve been in their CD section before and since I’m not in the market for Avril Lavigne, Michael Buble, Kieth Urban, P!nk, or One Direction (no disrespect to any of those artists), there was nothing for me to buy. Their curation seemed solely aimed at the streaming market, not the CD buying market.

Sad to hear about CDs being ditched from Best Buy. Coincidentally I got an email today from a new band called Loma who I am interested as Jonathan Meiburg is involved from Shearwater. They are encouraging preorders, which currently stand at about 600 worldwide and the albums out next week.
Makes me think how unsustainable all this is. The other thing for me is like last night, I started my music session with Future Islands and the National and honestly, they are so compressed you may as well be listening to a one box type streaming system.
Then I stuck Love’s Forever Changes on after the 50th announcement this week and it was like uncovering your ears. The music industry has certainly helped its own demise.

I grew up with Best Buy in Minnesota in the ’80s, when they were a local (maybe regional) chain on the rise, before their peak nationwide dominance. Used to be a good place to go for stereo equipment. These days, of course, their inventory for all audio hardware has been decimated. Seems like they only exist to sell TVs and maybe home theater equipment (not the same as a good music-oriented stereo system). Sadly, Best Buy and other chain store retailers helped put a lot of independent audio/video stores out of business during the ’80s and ’90s. So I don’t feel too bad for Best Buy in their current predicament.

Also, I very rarely bought CDs there. I would go to an independent music store first, and maybe Tower Records if needed. My primary concern these days is that Amazon dominates the online market for CD sales. It’s nice to find an independent retail store that cares about music, but I don’t visit these stores enough to find what I need. I should shop more at CD Universe, and maybe Discogs. Anyone else have a favorite non-Amazon web site or two?

How does Quincy Jones get his head through the door? Fascinating interview though.

This is sad news but I am not surprised. All of us here reading this site love to by physical but the wider world doesn’t share our passion. All my friends stream or mp3 and would never buy a CD.

Even I buy fewer and fewer, only new albums when they come out, and obviously an SDE reissue or two.

I heard Capitol music were ditching CD by the end of the decade. I look forward to the CD-revival in 2040.