Saturday Deluxe / 27 October 2018
Prepare thy wallet…for November 2018.
Are you ready for November? In what has to be the most heavily congested release schedule I can remember, for physical music fans of a certain demographic (SDE readers, effectively), there is an absurd amount of great product coming out. If you have eclectic taste then prepare your wallet for action…
To recap, in the next month we will see box sets and/or reissues from The Beatles, Bob Dylan, David Bowie, The Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Kate Bush, The Moody Blues, Fleetwood Mac, The Eagles, Howard Jones, Elvis, Rush, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Tom Petty, Suede, The Police, Bananarama, Cast, Ian Dury, Dead or Alive, Jeff Beck, Chic, Lulu, Ultravox, OMD, Jean Michel Jarre, Simply Red, Marillion, Metallica, Jethro Tull, Mott The Hoople and more!
My personal priorities will include The Beatles, David Bowie, Kate Bush, Howard Jones, The Police, Marillion, Jimi Hendrix and Jethro Tull, but I’m pretty much like everything in that list! We’re not out of the woods once November is past either, because there’s the little matter of two Paul McCartney reissues in December! What are your priorities for this month? Leave a comment and let me know!
A reminder that Tanita Tikaram‘s 1988 debut Ancient Heart is being reissued in early December on 30th anniversary limited edition clear vinyl. I’m chuffed that Tanita herself has promoted the SDE shop as her ‘official’ channel for fans to get hold of this, so do the right thing and place an order with us! I’ll make it really easy and give you a checkout button below!
Remember that ludicrously expensive ‘Locked N’ Loaded’ edition of Guns N’ Roses Appetite for Destruction? Well, it’s still very expensive BUT the MusicVaultz site in Canada has what seems to be an amazing deal, if you were in any way in the market for the £700-£800 box set, or you are just a mega GNR fan…
The deal is you can buy this massive box set for $1300 CA (which is about £775) and bundled with it FREE is a limited-edition custom branded Guns N’ Roses Turntable by Project-Audio. There are only 100 of these turntables being made ‘for the world’, apparently, and the site claims the value of the turntable alone is about $750 CA (£450). That’s some crazy deal, because to buy JUST the box set in the UK means spending £850. But with this deal you get box and turntable for less money. They do ship worldwide, although I have no idea, what the charges might be!
Visit the MusicVaultz website for more information on this deal.
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Definitely Marillion and Jethro Tull. Probably Hendrix and *possibly* Beatles, but I’m not sure yet.
Marillion and League of Gentlemen are on order for me. Happily the price of the latter dropped on Amazon to £96 again last Friday (which was the original release date I think), meaning my pre-order price finally dropped too, which was nice.
Some people are writing about a ‘Visage’ release? And ‘Xymox’. Can anyone tell me about these?
Yes, there is a Visage release, of the debut album, which has shamefully entirely passed me by until you made me look it out :-) It’s released by Rubellian Remasters – a new bespoke label from a guy who has handled a lot of re-mastering projects previously for major labels – devoted to 80s cult and obscure acts. It’s supposed to have been cut from the original tapes for the first time, and includes first time on CD releases of the 7″ b-sides Second Steps and We Move, which in both instances is more than about time!
I will definitely agree that November is a fantastic month for box sets and reissues. I have Yazoo, Re-Flex, Xymox and the Human’s Lib 2cd+1dvd (the only one of Ho Jo’s reissues which I feel is worth the bang for the buck for this cd connoisseur) on pre-order. Camouflage and Visage are both on their way. I also have recently purchased Magic Box by Rational Youth, and it is excellent. Overall a very exciting couple of months to be a collector, and A very merry early Christmas to all!
Because of the gap between the two KB boxes, I am hoping that reviews of the remastering of the first box will be out before both sets get shipped out at the end of November. So if there is not a notable sonic improvement I can consider cancelling. I can’t imagine Kate allowing what was done to Soft Cell to be done to her catalogue. It’s Yazoo, Marillion, Beatles and KB for me plus a few non SDE items.
Have the Visage on its way from Amazon US (Rubellan, the label putting it out, are selling it as an Amazon US Marketplace seller). I hope its as good as the reviews say.
I also hope everyone on SDE is able to get what they want before releases go out of print or the worldwide postal system collapses.
The postage cost for that Visage actually costs more than the actual CD. I will just have to give this a miss as i’m not paying £22 for a single CD as well as having to pay import duty.
Neil, Amazon changed their policies with Marketplace sellers allowing them to charge their own rates rather than forcing them to charge what Amazon charges. Amazon only charges $6.98 to post to the UK versus the $14.99 the sellers of this CD charge. Although $14.99 is closer to what it costs for an individual to mail a CD to Europe these days from the US. Returned a CD+ DVD in a DVD case a couple of years ago to Germany and it was close to $14. Becoming prohibitive. It almost forces people to use Amazon.
Yes and the problem there is Amazon aren’t selling this just four marketplace sellers. I have tried Discogs, Ebay and his own site and they are all asking this price for postage. I will wait and see if Amazon UK do have actually have it in stock come Friday though i’m not holding my breath.
Forgot to mention I also have the Ultravox Extended and Gary Numan – Savage Live 2 CD + DVD set (plus the new The Fallen EP) on order from TM stores.
I have the Visage CD and it is quite wonderful – there’s not many albums I’d pay over the odds on postage for, but Scott’s done a cracking job on it. November is already killing me, just with the Kate Bush and Siouxsie & The Banshees reissues. And maybe ‘Savage’…
I thought the recent Soft Cell box set and singles CD sounded excellent.
Judie Tzuke 24CD Box Set ordered today as a result of seeing the News Article on SDE (Thanks Paul!).
Would love to have bought the Howard Jones ones, but I don’t have an additional £200 spare. Will stick with the single CD Remasters of those two wonderful LP’s for the time being.
Would’ve bought the Kate Bush CD Box Sets but there’re too many glaring omissions from the Rarities CD’s to make them a worthwhile purchase for me sadly. I will stick with the THIS WOMAN’S WORK CD Box Set and the other CD Singles, Various Artists albums etc. etc. that I’ve bought in the past plus I’m quite happy with the sound quality on the CD versions of all of her LP’s that I currently own (Sorry Kate, still love you though!)
I think I do have fairly eclectic taste and yet there’s nothing there for me.
Kate Bush came the closest as I wouldn’t mind having all those extra tracks in one place, however I’m not going to buy half a dozen albums I don’t want again.
I’m not a great Beatles fan although I do like the White album. Not enough to buy it again though. Might give it a listen online but no more than that.
Bowie 74-79 is the era I’m mainly interested in but a 2000 live performance isn’t for me.
The only physical item I do have on order for November is Massive Attack’s Mezzanine.
Going to see Goat Girl on Friday though. That should be fun!
I have tried to offset November and have already paid for most of mine from various sources. Only the Rush and Jean Michel Jarre sets are on Amazon unpaid for yet.
I have The Beatles, Howard Jones (box sets and coloured vinyls), and Marillion coming and probably others I have forgotten I have paid for.
Sadly Kate Bush will have to wait. I just hope they aren’t limited edition.
It’s apparent that, in this crowded release schedule, that certain “Classic Rock” artists opted to sit on the sidelines, though they easily could have offered archival product. Specifically Led Zeppelin, The Who, Bruce Springsteen, King Crimson & The Beach Boys.
By the way, the rumoured 50th anniversary boxed set edition of King Crimson’s 1969 debut album turned out to be a hoax started on the Steve Hoffman forums. Panegyric, the label that releases the King Crimson boxed sets says there will be no such boxed set.
The Beatles – preordered
Elvis – want it but just purchased the 2008 40th anniversary release
Rush – I will order it from the Rush web site with a t-shirt
Tom Petty – preordered but now Amazon US states the release date is February 1, 2019
The Police – I want it on CD, UMe
Metallica – preordered the three disc set
Pistol Annies – preordered the cd
Chris Cornell – preordered
Iron Maiden – want The Number of the Beast 2015 remastered on digipak.
Paul, I would like to hear more about the SDE of The Seeds of Love!
I still want to purchase the SDE of Songs From the Big Chair.
I still want to purchase Aretha Franklin’s Take a Look Complete on Columbia cd box set.
I don’t buy Vinyl, which makes things a lot easier.
I recently got Lindsey Buckingham, Camouflage and Bowie LTA, still waiting for Bronski Beat, Fleetwood Mac, Bowie Live, Ultravox, Howard Jones, Tom Petty, Art of Noise, Yazoo and Massive Attack
S.E.s bought since July;
Pretty Things ‘SF Sorrow’ 4xLP & 4×7″ single Box.
The Band ‘Music From Big Pink 50 Anniversary Box’.
The Doors ‘Waiting For The Sun’.
King Crimson The 3xCD/Bluray Mexico set.
The Kinks ‘VGPS Box – S.E. release of the year up to now.
Small Faces ‘OGNF’ LP & CD box sets.
John Lennon ‘Imagine’ box.
Tom Petty ‘An American Treasure’ box.
The Action New S.E. box.
To come;
Tom Petty ‘An American Treasure’ 6xLP box.
Bob Dylan ‘More Blood, More Tracks all 3 editions, it’s Bob innit?
Moody Blues ‘In Search Of The Lost Chord’ S.E.
Chris Robinson Brotherhood ‘Betties Live Selections Vol4’ 3LP set.
Jimi Hendrix ‘ Electric Ladyland’ S.E.
Jethro Tull Latest Steven Wilson S.E.
The Beatles ‘White Album 50’ S.E. Box & 4xLP box.
Sheryl Crow Live 2CD/Bluray set.
The ‘Breaking Bad’ vinyl box.
Paul McCartney The 2CDs sets of Red Rose Speedway & the other one plus the 2LP of one of them! Forget the bloody title.
…not to mention regular release from Neil Young, Ryley Walker, Mark Knopflet, Dave Davies and more.
Then there’s the Tom Petty new 2CD best of & 4LP Clear Vinyl box delayed until Feb 19.
All financed by selling unplayed stuff from my collection and to make room for that lot!
I’ve pre-ordered the MP3 version of Dylan’s More Blood from Google Play Music. I have all the other Bootleg releases on CD and the orginal album is right up there, but I really don’t want or need another biggish box with a couple of books that I’ll skim through once. Even though the box set is not a stretch financially, the digital version is £70 cheaper. I’m not interested in The Beatles or their solo careers, I have the only two Kate Bush albums that I want already and I have all of David Bowie’s albums (and rarely listen to them now) and even though I saw him live a few times, recordings of his live music holds no appeal.
I bought a nice compilation that was released last week, Shaolin Soul Episodes 1,2 & 3. Three CD’s of top drawer 60s and 70s soul that was sampled by RZA / Wu-Tang. I might also buy the four disc Stereolab box set that came out a few weeks ago. The release I’m most looking foward to is Now-Again’s reissue of David Axelrod’s Earth Rot that has the added bonus of the largely unreleased instrumental versions! A very underrated album, even some Axelrod aficionados dislike it. It’s not listed on Amazon yet but it’s due at the end of November.
For me it is the presentation and what’s in the box set that appeals to me. And I have to say the Kate Bush vinyl and cd sets are awesome as well as the upcoming Howard Jones releases. So they are ordered. I would like to say I have ordered the massive Chris Cornell box set which is breathtaking in everything that it offers. It contains a nice book, vinyl, cd’s, and his video output. A fitting tribute to a very underrated artist! I had hesitation on the Fleetwood Mac 3 cd box coming out but am getting it for a “finally” remastered version of the Stevie Nicks song “Fireflies” the ever loving Christine McVie’s “ As Long As You Follow” and for the Lindsey Buckingham fueled “ Sad Angel” which is a jam! I am also awaiting the massive vinyl box set for Joni Mitchell’s “ Love Has Many Faces” a subtle quiet release that just slipped in out of nowhere! These are exciting times and every day we get notice of something exciting coming out and we are barely into November or December!
Marillion for sure.
Not about to touch Def Lep compilation [another one] for a single new track [plus Rock On (remix)].
Beatles White 3CD
Hendrix
Haken
Steven Wilson
Rolling Bones Voodoo Lounge Uncut
Neal Morse
Roine Stolt
and David Bowie’s Glastonbury [with DVD]
Kate x 4. Wax.
Dinosaur Jr. White.
Soars over the year-end competition. Fortunately !
Dylan single disc,Beatles,Hendrix and .Chris Cornell for me.That follows on last months Petty,Lennon,Bowie and REM.Like you said,unprecedented.
Another format that seems big on the run in to Christmas is the live 2cd plus DVD or Bluray release.Of these I am getting Steven Wilson,Sheryl Crow,Rolling Stones,David Bowie and one you haven’t featured yet Midnight Oil.The Midnight Oil release from last year’s tour comes in various formats but the best appears to be the deluxe edition that gives you film of a second “intimate” show.Not sure what release schedule is outside of Australia but here it comes out 9 November and the deluxe retails for $35 which is about £20.
All of that doesn’t count things like the new Neil Young archive release and actual new music from Mark Knopfler and Jeff Tweedy.
Ordered:
Bowie cd+dvd
Kate Bush 4 vinyl boxes
Marillion cd and vinyl boxes
The police vinyl box
The Police Message in a box cd box
I have both of the KATE BUSH Remastered CD Box Sets on pre-order (Special discount when ordered together).
Also pre-ordered is the 24CD set “Full Moon – The Complete Collection” by JUDIE TZUKE (released 16th November) featuring all of her studio and live albums in one coffee table book style box set. It is listed at HMV and Amazon, but I’ve ordered my copy directly from her website. A great way to obtain her albums, most of which are otherwise out of print and fetch crazy prices second-hand.
According to a recent Forbes article (https://www.forbes.com/sites/markbeech/2018/10/08/lennon-dylan-hendrix-reveal-box-sets-as-2018-reissues-set-record/#7aacdd7629e8), 2018 is the high-water mark for reissues of all sizes and shapes.
Staying on top of the information related to this avalanche is a 24/7 job.
Paying for what we might like to own REQUIRES a 24/7 job.
Interested in the Hendrix SACD’s and Electric Ladyland 5.1 blu-ray. RSD actually looks decent compared to previous years, so maybe a few things there. For the moment I’ve ordered some of the under the radar stuff:
Decade 1967-1976 – Lulu
The Crazy World Of Arthur Brown Deluxe Box Set
The Cowsills new album on PledgeMusic
White Album, League of Gentlemen and Electric Ladyland….
Would have been Beggars Banquet too, but they can shove it….
Hey folks! Keeping an eye on the Bowie box, Beatles 50’s White Album and Dylan’s More Blood, More Tracks. Some boxes that are already out, but I haven’t had the chance are Nazareth Loud & Proud and Dylan’s Trouble No More. Greetings from Hamburg and happy week everybody!
Cheers Michael and a happy week to you too
It’s only my opinion but with a few minor exceptions the 80s ended in terms of post-punk creative pop music in 1985.
I could not stand any of the SAW productions other thing You Spin Me Round and Roadblock, which were both exceptional to be fair
1983 / 1984 – the best years in music……and when it comes to the UK charts specifically, the decline in quality is more than apparent when watching reruns of TOTP performances (currently showing the second half of 1986).
Of course, there were / will always be worthy exceptions, but the golden age was over by 1986….
I am MOST excited about the upcoming Kate Bush reissues next month in November.
Also some others are: Howard Jones, Re-Flex, Camouflage, a few others… Oh and the Madonna singles box set. I am excited about that as well.
Madonna Singles Box on the way?
Where did you see it? I seriously NEED to know about this…
Mr Sinclair, do you know anything?
Or is my leg being pulled, a la the Wham! “Make It Bigger” April Fool?
Haven’t heard anything about Madonna…
I was joking. It’s me being sarcastic. And wishing. All at the Same time.
Yeah… maybe don’t do that next time? As ‘jokes’ go it wasn’t a classic and it creates lots of unnecessary ‘traffic’ on the comments section, as you probably noticed.
I pre-ordered the ‘Clutching At Straws’ set from the band’s website, though I’d love ‘The White Album’ 7 disc set and the Kate Bush box sets, but can’t stretch the funds to them just yet.
Hello, i went for Hendrix electric ladyland, Chris Cornell 4 cd set, manic street preachers everything must go 2cd/2 dvd + vinyl from amason Italy (approx 40 euro) manic this is ,,,3 cd and also some older sets ; suede ”suede” silver edition, house of love 5 cd and skip Spence 3 cd.
I Will most propably go for Dylan more blod and Bowie loving the Alien IF a god deal occurs .
Best regards, hans
Amazon is causing me a huge problem at the moment as I would probably cancel some on my open orders for Nov / Dec if they weren’t such stupidly good prices. I have officially become my Mother from the 1980s Christmas sales in that she would buy something because it was a bargain and not necessarily because the family needed it.
On order at Amazon
Cast at £35.99 currently £65.99 never going to be cheaper…..
Lindsey Buckingham Anthology £70.62 currently £109.99
Lulu Decade signed £31.76 currently unavailable but £36.99 if it pops up
The League of Gentlemen – £95.99 currently £135.99
Suede coloured limited Amazon exclusive £104.29 – currently unavailable
Now which of those can go and not cost me an arm and a leg more if I want to re-order it later?
On order at SDE
Bagpuss – Limited shop window edition
Breaking Bad limited 5 x 10″
On order elsewhere
Kate Bush 4 x Vinyl boxes – £300
All of this means I can’t get stuff that in the normal scheme of things I would want such as Yazoo, Ultravox, Police, Beatles, Hitchhiker’s part II and so on and so on.
Great price on the Kate Bush boxes, may I ask where you found them at the price of £300? :-)
What records In Nuneaton.
Already on the turntable etc
Nazareth “Loud n Proud “Super Deluxe
Kinks VGPS. Super Deluxe
Lennon “Imagine” Super Deluxe
Arthur Brown Super Deluxe
On tap
Mott the Hoople Box Set
Marillion “Clutching at Straws” Super Deluxe Set
Jethro Tull Book Edition
Lovely to own never gonna get round to listening to all those
Turntables must be expensive in Canada because that looks like an Pro-ject Essential which can be had for about 200 quid over here…
The turntable isn’t the only item that the discerning GnR fan can choose to have bundled with the super-duperbox. If you prefer you can get a GnR denim jacket. Or a ‘Cross Redux Jersey’. Or a ‘Seal Jersey’.
Given all the various sweeteners on offer, it kind of make you wonder how many of the boxes have actually been, you know, ***sold***….
Thanks Caroline for the your list of new releases you have picked up. Will check them out. Just got the Camouflage deluxe numbered CD!
I have quite a varied but expensive November also
And Justice for All – Metallica (Vinyl)
The Dreaming, Sensual World , Hounds of Love – Kate Bush (Vinyl)
Studio Albums 93-16 – Suede (Vinyl)
The Music from Bagpuss [VINYL]
And The Beastie Boys Book
Do we know the winner of Depeche mode competition?
Sorry, will post the announcement today…
I ordered the Bob Dylan set from SDE shop (says £90, so cancelled my amazon order)
Will be getting Steven Wilson new live CD\DVD set for my birthday next week ( thank you Ellie)
Other than that, my usual monthly seeking of back catalogue stuff currently Hawkwind, Harold Budd, Tangerine Dream and many more….
Thanks for the SDE order!
The Moody’s ISOTLC appears to be MIA on Amazon
recent bowie and soft cell releases are near the top of the list. not to mention omd and japan remasters. i have to ask myself though do i need any of it? do i need 9 discs of soft cell music for example (excellent though it is) or re buying 80s bowie -much of that i would barely listen too. although that’s complicated by the fact that my wallet isn’t exactly bulging and while i appreciate the site and visit almost daily, i do feel the need to stay in touch with actual new music that’s more the purpose of other sites to cover. must say though- keep up the great work!
Paul, it would be interesting if you could do an end of year article on what SDE’s they most enjoyed this year & what they’re most looking forward to next year. On another note, David Sylvian is issuing a photography book ( 1 of 3 apparently ) of the early 80’s soon on his website which some readers may find interesting. I ordered mine but unfortunately missed the signed copies.
Nothing ordered yet. I will wait for the next Black Friday in november. I have some hope that a lot of this stuff will be much cheaper.
I ordered The Beatles White Album box with 10 euros off at Amazon France (thanks Paul for the alert).
Also ordered the 3 Wings 2LP sets at JPE (don’t expect the price to drop very much on those)
And for the rest I am in ‘The-Waiting-Game-Room’: hoping to see significant price drops and SDE alerts on all Bowie’s, The Police, Kate Bush boxes after christmas. I have a patient wallet ;-)
Kate Bush (vinyl), Howard Jones boxes and the Beatles here. Bowie’s ‘Loving the Alien’ is having to wait til the new year!
What about the next Depeche Mode 12″ Box Sets?
…and there still could be some (download-only) “Copyright Extension” releases. “Various Artists-Motown Unreleased 1968” is for certain. Compiler Keith Hughes says that the song line-up has yet to be finalised, but it is definitely on the way.
I pre-ordered Billy Joel SACD 5.1, the Beatles White Album super deluxe, Jimi Hendrix Electric Ladyland vinyl and cds and a assortment of other new releases
I have never been a big fan, nor had enough disposable income to keep rebuying product.
Though thanks to this site, I buy the great deals and peruse the rest ( if available)
from the good old library.
Love the site and the comments.
I haven’t ordered any big box sets mainly as I haven’t listened much to the last few I got. 3 disc White Album at a bargain price from amazon Canada, “original” double vinyl Red Rose Speedway and vinyl Blood on the Tracks for me. I did get the Bowie box set for just a few pounds as a lossless download and also the Imagine Bli-ray. Would love The Kinks set but it would mainly be on a shelf as I have 5 other Village Green Preservation Society discs to listen to. Then Spotify fills in a lot of the gaps.
I live in Australia and i can not buy anything but the David Bowie box set i asked about the new Paul Mccartney box sets no go The Beatles White Album box set no go David Bowie Glasenbury cd/dvd no go if anyone can help please let me know.
My Nov. pre-orders: Bauhaus, Kate Bush, Dead Or Alive, U2, Queen, Jane Weaver and OMD. Oh, and then there’s RSD
Here’s what’s up with me…just got in the mail the Bobbie Gentry box…nice piece…and was able to snag a signed Ben Folds box from Amazon UK…some musta been cancelled & popped up… On its way… Ordering soon…new Robyn called “Honey” sold out, copies back on 11/2, Def Lep Vol 1 box price drop & Barry White box…on preorder Amazon US: Rosanne Cash new one “She Remembers Everything” super limited SDE called the “Memory Box” looks sweeeeet…Frankie & the Knockouts box & Chic ‘1977-1979’…on preorder Amazon UK: Manics ‘This Is My Truth’ (December), Fleetwood Mac 3CD, Lulu box & 5CD box ‘Now That’s What I Call Now”…other upcoming releases I have my eye on and budgeting…out 11/2…Pistol Annie’s & the 2 Badfinger reissues on Real Gone, 11/9…Muse, Beatles White Album, Soft Cell box out in US & Train (hits collection guilty pleasure), 11/16…Mark Knopfler, Glen Campbell, Chris Cornell box & Massive Attack reissue, 11/23…Rita Ora & new Cliff Richard, 11/30…Bowie Glastonbury 2000, Kate Bush (may have to push till after my cruise but I def want/need both boxes), Def Leppard The Story So Far (2CD), Neil Diamond 6CD box & the Fall, and 12/7…LP (new album by this genius artist), John Mellencamp & 2 McCartneys (then or push till after cruise)…
Just the Bowie Glastonbury – and I’m going for the 2-CD, since the video os of no interest – and the Tull. So not too bad this end. The Dylan was kinda interesting, but I hate how they sequence the songs. There’s just no way I’m going to want to play what is essentially the same track 9 times in a row. Not at £100 anyway.
My wallet got ready for an iphone 8 this month so…
Thanks God i don’t care about vinyl.
Still i have some planned purchases on CD:
1) The Beatles – White album (3cds)
2) Def Leppard – The Story So far (2cds)
Both releases euro editions so i’ll need to import, hope i don’t.
Beatles, Dylan, Bowie, Hendrix and Suede – Santa’s coming a month early! Was thinking that was it but having seen a phenomenal John Fogerty in Dublin last night I’m seriously considering that Creedence box.
Already in the house:
XTC vinyl re-issues
Kinks VGPS LP and 2CD set
Bowie LtA box (CD)
On tap:
Badfinger (2 expanded CDs)
Police box
Suede box
Mott box
Tull box
Marillion box
Van Morrison (new LP)
Bowie Glastonbury CD/DVD
Kate Bush (2 CD boxes and all 4 LP sets)
Knopfler (new LP)
Eurythmics (last 2 LPs in series)
Neil Young “Judy” LP
Petty vinyl sets
Beatles 4LP White Album
etc…
Dear god, if my wife is around when a quarter of this is delivered…
Keep up the great work, Paul!
Kate Bush (x2), Marillion, Metallica and Steven Wilson on pre-order.
Rush, Dylan and Ultravox are must buys
Bowie (TLA) and Glastonbury have me counting pennies to see if I can stretch to them.
Then another pay day, another 2 McCartney boxes!
An expensive 8 weeks but looking forward to the above, esp 30th Nov and Kate Bush vol 2
Dylan, Kate Bush, Beatles, Moody Blues, Marillion And Judy Tzuke box set. Then about ten more releases like House of Love and Cranberries and Doors that I would like to own plus the regular CD releases that are threatened and Manics and Tull – and then a month off to listen to all of them, no make that six!
If you are able to the solution is to work full time until you have the Deluxe Editions you need then to go part time temporarily or permanently in order to enjoy them all!
Not forgetting Bowie 2 times, Mott, Joe Strummer, Cocteau Twins so Xmas presents are on hold this year
Lulu red vinyl
Lulu signed CD box set
Jeff Beck
Ayers/Cale/Eno
Glen Campbell sings the king
Bowie Glastonbury
And that’s the ones I remember
New Jarre LP is a must for me, will probably get the Bowie Glastonbury but wait for a price drop
Well it’s great to read about all these special, super, expanded, deluxe, bonus etc etc editions BUT Paul how about once a week just a decent full as possible list of brand new release albums by as many different artists that you can do…Because NOT every new album comes out as special super deluxe edition and I know that this site specializes in those, but I’m sure a lot of the readers here including me would just love a list of standard edition new release albums as each week goes by…One glaring example recently and barely if at all a comment on here was the brand new album by former lead vocalist of Journey Steve Perry with his album “Traces” first new album in 24 years !!
There’s a whole load of albums that come out each week that never get a mention on here and to have a good comprehensive list each week would be such a treat and very informative for fans of certain artists who may not be aware that they are being released.
Sorry, not SDE’s remit. This site is about delivering and discussing a curated list of releases (largely reissues of course) not comprehensive list of everything.
To Paul Sinclair:
“Sorry, not SDE’s remit. This site is about delivering and discussing a curated list of releases (largely reissues of course) not comprehensive list of everything.”
I don’t know how you can say that when you announce new albums such as Bryan Ferry and Culture Club.
If you say that they have “deluxe” editions [not even super deluxe editions] than so does just about every release out there.
TheProgster is right. In addition, you have left out “deluxe” releases over the years or maybe you are just biased against some artists.
I decide what I think it right for the broad majority of the SDE audience – that’s not being ‘biased’ that’s just me deciding what is in and out… sort of what an editor does, no? A limited edition signed Bryan Ferry album and a new Culture Club album (available as an exclusive die-cut edition) was clearly something I thought people would be interested in. I’m never going to please everyone, but going by the ever-growing audience and few complaints I think I’m getting it broadly right. I also decide what comments get published so don’t need any threats (jokey or otherwise) about ‘censorship’. Anyway, if SDE isn’t fitting the bill, feel free to go off to that other music site that fits your particular tastes perfectly.
To Harry Carter…..Jeez, who died and made you God?
Paul, keep going exactly as you are, make changes if you want, leave it as it is if you want. It amazes me at the arrogance of some that they feel everything must mirror exactly what they want and feel it is their duty to prescribe what you should do with your site.
The Progster isn’t right Harry, that would dilute this site completely into “just another site”. That’s what curation is, it happens at museums and it should happen more often with tracklists. Picking and choosing the right ones according to the curator. And the day Paul listens to the minority is the day the music dies on SDE.
We are lucky that Paul is as sensible a soul as he is as I’d cull many more miserable, judgmental, repetitive and whingeing posters than he allows to stand in the search for fair play.
Paul
Thank You!! Don’t ever change. The scope & meter of your site is perfect. I get a list via email each week of ALL that is coming out & mind-bending might be the best way to describe it’s contents.
J
I love this site for the fact that it is a deluxe reissue site. There’s no way Paul could cover every new album by every” legacy” artist. Change nothing, SDE is perfect as it is.
If you want a full round up of weekly releases you could try Music Week,
https://www.musicweek.com/
but it’s gonna cost you. Otherwise you’ll have to put in the work, most labels will post lists of releases on their websites, for example..
https://www.cherryred.co.uk/new-releases/
https://www.rhino.com/releases
Only two purchases for me this month. Bowie @ Glastonbury and the Bauhaus catalogue on coloured vinyl. Otherwise my kids don’t get anything for Christmas! :-)
I barely made it through October with my music purchases. NOW I check out your roster of November special edition releases, and although I don’t know the details yet, I’m truly interested in MANY of these recording artists. Halloween is 4 days away. Your news is enthralling and frightening! I can already predict November to be another tight budgeted month! WOW.
I’ll be getting The Dreaming,The Chic box and Twist Of Shadows by Xymox(2cd includes all mixes/b-sides)also looking forward to Animals 5.1/Seeds Of Love box set.
Feel quite frugal in that my choices for November are the coloured vinyl Suede LP box set, and the 12-LP League of Gentlemen box…still, 22 LPs for just shy of £200!
Oh, and I forgot I also pre-ordered the Songs: Ohia “Lioness” reissue with a disc full of unreleased material and a gorgeous package ! Pre-order still available directly from the Secretly Canadian website:
https://www.secretlystore.com/love-and-work-the-lioness-sessions-songs-ohia
I’ve been waiting on this for ages so was a pretty much instant pre-order for me, though not cheap for a double LP!
If money isn’t the problem, the other and the real problem is where to find the time to listen all these records? Shame there isn’t possibility to buy time!
Exactly, my man! During the last 36 months or so I’ve got roughly 370 discs (single cds, double cds, discs in different sized box sets) that I haven’t listened to yet. Not once. Then there are about 150 books on my shelves waiting for to be read. And counting…
I try to listen to and read some pretty much every day. I’m not retiring until 2022, but I’m confident that I’ll never have time to properly enjoy all my stuff. I’m a normal family man and believe me I’m not ill!
Here here, I’ve still not got all the way through the last Bowie box or Nick Cave big compilation yet! With 2 young children, time is the enemy!!
Any idea about mccartney Egypt Station super deluxe box set yet?
Nope…
I ordered The Beatles “White Album”, Bowie “Glastonbury” and Marillion “Clutching At Straws”
I’m going to buy Manic Street Preachers “This is my truth…” And Steven Wilson “Home Invasion” sometimes later.
I hope that Fish will sell the “Weltschmerz” Album at his concert, but I think we’ll only get his new EP.
I’m only interested in Cd/Dvd/Bluray, so I’m not going to get LP etc.
And I don’t buy anything from amazon, for amazon is not paying their employees a fair salary.
Busy month… you’ve got that right!!!!
I’m picking up the following
Jimi Hendrix both CD & the numbered Vinyl box set from the Hendrix site
The Beatles White Album box set for the incredibly cheap price of under $100 US from Amazon France that’s including shipping folks
Jethro Tull “This Was”
The new Rush box set for about $100 from Amazon.com
Then a few other items that haven’t been posted on here as follows
Rolling Stones – Sympathy For The Devil Blu Ray
Alice Cooper video compilation called Television something can’t remember the total title
And just an update as far as the new Billy Joel 52nd Street SACD from Japan …… Even SONY from Japan is completely sold out of it!!! Glad I got my copies
Merry BANKRUPTCY everyone!!!! LMAO :-)
White album SDE and 2LP ordered.. Thinking about putting the 2LP “red rose speedway” on my xmas wishlist… For the rest, very interested in the Bob Dylan SDE and Electric Ladyland, but I will wait a price drop. Spending almost all my music budget in secondhand vinyl of albums I already love and know I will listen a lot, so I spend less on reissues. Still undecided on the Kinks reissue though it’s one of my fave album ever, but I already have a copy of the album and wonder how many times I would spin the three different versions in the box set. For rarities, my “go-to” method is Spotify (which alas, doesn’t have the entire kinks and probably won’t have the Dylan one… Oh, well)
what about siouxsie videos
I just got the new Visage deluxe CD reissue of the first album. That will tide me over through the Holiday season. Although, I will be interested in reading reviews and comments on Kate and Howard.
hey mark thanks for the advice to the visage re-release. sadly it’s far away from any “deluxe” treatment. it’s too much missing there. i thought a “deluxe edition” would be someday filled
with those material – that i have in my own collection since many years – as bonus material:
fade to grey ( original 12” extended version ) 6:17
fade to grey ( 12” dance mix ) 6:41
fade to grey ( dance mix edit ) 5:36
fade to grey ( 7” version with alternate female vocals – not brigitte ) 3:54
fade to grey ( 7” dance mix ) 3:46
+ maybe some multitrack parts from the visage website release
( like: “french female” / “bell synth” / “steve lead vocal” / “synth bass” )
mind of a toy ( 7″ single version ) 3:33
mind of a toy ( 12” dance mix ) 5:15
visage ( 12” dance mix ) 6:05
visage ( 7” single remix ) 3:49
we move ( 12” dance mix ) 6:31
we move ( original 7” single version ) 3:59
second steps ( 12” bonus track ) 5:28
frequency 7 ( 1981 dance version ) 4:58
frequency 7 ( original 1979 mix ) 3:58
frequency 7 ( 12” dance version – complete alternate ending ) 5:05
in the year 2525 ( original 1978 mix )
tar ( original 7” single version 1979 )
…but this 7 bonus tracks “deluxe” release is 100% disappointing.
it derserves much more. i can’t believe there is nothing more in the polydor / universal vaults.
It’s been a crazy (and expensive) few weeks…picked up the Small Faces ONGF 50th Anniversary set, Kinks VGPS and Lennon Imagine super deluxe sets, Bowie LTA vinyl set and looking forward to the White Album super deluxe edition on the 9th. Selling a kidney in December.
Only getting Jimi Hendrix (pre-ordered from Amazon). I refuse to spend money for loads of demos and out-takes I will never play. Such a waste.
Another thought on these wallet-busting months… they’ll likely continue for a while.
We’re in an amazing period of 50th anniversaries. If you look at all the classic albums through about 1974, and assuming many of them get a deluxe 50th anniversary edition, we’re in for an avalanche of great releases over the next few years, not to mention random stuff thrown into the mix like McCartney archives, an expected King Crimson set next year, etc.
Pace yourselves, everyone!
Paul, any chance of the Tears for Fears SDE of Seeds ever coming out?
Yes :)
They dont/wont deliver the G&R box set with turntable to the uk, if you were however in the market for a nice turntable and a gunners fan this might have been an ok deal
Just because these sets have been released, that doesn’t mean you have to buy them asap. As a frequent buyer of box sets and deluxe cd’s, my main goal is to get them for a decent price. It’s become sort of a sport. When something is releaed that fits my taste and has added value like additional remixes or a 5.1 mix of the album, I first assess whether a future deal alert is realistic, or if the release price may increase. I love the Loving The Alien Box from Bowie but since the first 3 box sets all had a deal alert at some point, I trust that will be the case again now. So I’m not buying it till I see a deal alert. The Soft Cell box on the other hand is unlikely to have a significant deal alert and it’s original price on most sites has already increased since the release price. I’m guessing that box is fairly limited (like the already out of print Marc Almond box) so I went for it. The Bowie box will not be as limited so there is plenty of time to get it.
Another box I would like is the Beatles White album. They will produce a good amount of those box sets (like the still in print Sgt Pepper) so I’m waiting on a deal alert for that one too. No need to buy Bowie or Beatles before Christmas without a deal alert unless you absolutely cannot live without that box.
I already bought the Marillion box because it was signed and cheap. The signed ones will disappear fairly quick so that was a no brainer, especially since it includes a 5.1 mix. The Chic box will be available for a long time so no rush on that one. Here s an example of something I would buy right away. The new Jarre Equinoxe box is very cheap in Germany. €12 cheaper than the next cheapest site. It will likely go up as this is very cheap and most of Jarre’s boxes do. So I have already purchased that one. I’m in NYC so I bought it without VAT for €53 plus €4 shipping. That is more than reasonable. If anyone is interested, here is the link:
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07H62Q4JN/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The Howard Jones boxes don’t offer much value at all so that is another reason for me to wait for a deal alert if I decide to get them. Few boxes have much value this Christmas. The Police, Eagles, Kate Bush, it’s mostly stuff that has been released already at some point. The other boxes, mostly 60 and 70’s stuff aren’t really my taste. You forgot to mention the Cranberries. That is a cheap box and a good album. I may get that as well once the prices lowers a bit.
Totally agree with you. I like to get the best deal I can. Sometimes I’ll go second hand if it looks ok and the price is right.
I’ve just got the Imagine box for £55 new. I’ve ordered the limited 11CD McCartney box because I doubt it will drop in price. I’ll sell it on if the Wings Over Europe material is not worth having – I’m sure it will hold it’s value. However it is my favourite solo Macca era (Ram being top choice) so I’ll probably keep it.
Bowie at Glastonbury is on order (£25 delivered – thanks SDE!)
Next will be Beatles White, new Bowie box and Kate Bush boxes, the order depending on when deals appear. Still waiting for deals on Max Richter Sleep box and some others from months, even years, ago.
Kauwgompie – Brill comment about the sporting element of chasing SDE pricing. I wonder if I can start an SDE fantasy league, like I bought the White Album for $79 from amazon.tibet.
Once I get past the have to haves on the day of release, BobBoot14, I am full on for sport and arbitrage between all my Amazon shopping carts. Save $3 and give up 2 weeks through shipping, I am all over it
For me, it’s the Bowie box set and the ‘Ricochet’ book, Stones Voodoo blu ray / CD combo , MSP “This is my truth….” & I’m gonna get the INXS “Kick” reissue too. Might buy the “White” album reissue but need the time to listen to the last reissue to see if I really NEED an upgrade on that. How much time let alone money do these record companies think we have?
Wise words, Malone.
I have the Beatles White album box on order along with the overpriced McCartney Wings 71-73 box. Also in for Bowie at Glastonbury and the Hendrix box. Just got the new Kinks box yesterday. Beautiful.
still coming up:
Sheryl Crow – live at the capitol theathre
Stones – Voodoo lounge
McCartney -both 2 discs versions
And I want either Dylan bootleg 14 or the White Album sde, maybe both.
And just arrived:
Bowie – Alien box
12 deluxe cd’s from the amazon.de 3 for 25
Cypress Hill – Elephants on Acid
The new Behemoth album
Bohemian Rhapsody soundtrack
So: no more money, no more storage space and over 10 cd’s I still have to play at least once.
In a way I’m quite pleased I don’t think there’s anything in that list I plan on buying…I’m already buying too much for the time available to listen:)
Food, mortgage, kids programs, insurance, then home entertainment…all part of growing up, I’m afraid That’s a spectacular list of artists but all it means is I’ve got to show more self control…a helluva lot more than I’ve shown in the past. The Dylan looks amazing, and I truly love Blood on the Tracks, but I’m measuring my need for that box by how much I listen to the countless alternate takes on other Bootleg Series boxes. So, for now, I know The Beatles will be coming for my 48th (thanks to my wife), and I’ll be getting her (us!) the two lovely Kate boxes for Christmas. The OMD lps do look a tasty bunch, as does the CCR box, but I’ll just enjoy those on CD for now. Likewise the Mott, but I’ll just throw on the original vinyl. The days of multiple copies simply need to be behind me, dare I render myself and my family bankrupt and homeless!!! And returning to living with dear, old mum is simply not an option
Mott the Hoople & Lulu ordered. Be Bop Deluxe can wait till i return from my holiday. The Beatles will have to drop some before i plunge. Likewise Rem BBC box.
Moodies Bowie Kate and Fabs. Also looking forward to The Action which I ordered back in July.
Thanks Paul for the consistent excellence of this site!
Beatles White Album 4 vinyl
The Police vinyl box
Kate Bush Kick & Hounds
Dylan’s BOTT
My November ‘musts’ are the “The White Album”,”Electric Ladyland & the reissue of Calexico’s,”The Black Light”. That’s not all of the ‘musts’ I want but the other titles will have to wait a bit…..What’s a poor boy to do?!
Oh no, tom forrester, another one for the list. That Calexico album is phenomenal.
On order:
Steven Wilson, Metallica, Marillion & Jethro Tull.
Waiting for reviews and/or price drop:
Beatles, Kate Bush x 2 & Chris Cornell
Waiting (in vain) for a change in product content:
Rush (CD + 5.1 Blu-ray only !!)
It’s definitely an extraordinary time to be a music fan/ collector. I’ve just been reading about a Judie Tzuke box set that will feature all 23 of her albums and a ‘rarities’ disc, and all for £85.00 if you buy via HMV online. (I cannot find out if it’s remastered or not, but expect it must be). That plus. The Beatles and Kate Bush will be quite enough for the moment… Then again, I have also noticed that a 6 CD Neil Diamond retrospective is also on the way… Clearly I need a second mortgage. Happy Christmas!
Just want to add: new music has been quite a strain on my purse too: Neneh Cherry, She Makes War, Anna Calvi, Heather Leigh, Nurse With Wound, Christine and the Queens, Suede, Neil Campbell, Cruel Diagonals, Black Dresses…phew.
And a new Ginger Wildheart album – The Pessimist’s Companion plus new ones from The Good The Bad And The Queen, Vauren, Ruby Throat, Leila Moss, Brix And The Extracated, and Smashing Pumpkins.
Beatles White Album
Dylan BOTT and
Kate Bush CD box 1 to come in November
Just got Kinks box….what a beauty! That’s how a SDE should be done.
Sticking to the 2CD versions of the McCartney releases because I just can’t justify that price. Mr McCartney is getting a tad greedy for my liking.
Be Bop Deluxe-Sunset Finish as well but I will be sticking with the big four, Beatles,Hendrix and Dylan and the Stones, that’s £300.00 gone already.
*Sunburst* from pendants corner here but yes, great to see this ’76 classic get the treatment.
Main physical product I’m hoping will emerge is the reissue of the Steven Stapleton/David Tibet albums from the 90’s, due out as a 5CD set, 2LP and a 12″ which, thanks to the nature of these things, will all contain different unreleased music. They were supposed to be available a fortnight ago and it’s all gone vewy, vewy, qwiet…
If the “White Album” box was priced more like the “Imagine” box, I’d be there and I’m still sorely tempted by the first Kate Bush CD box.
Just received David Bowie LTA. Have ordered The Beatles, Bob Dylan, 2 x Kate Bush and Elvis Comeback Special 50th anniversary. No turkey this Christmas!
Philip, I would have loved to see the mythological Tears for Fears Seeds 5.1 box be released on top of all the other goodies coming out in November, however at this point I doubt we’ll ever see it. Hopefully more XTC though, which I’m sure we’ll see!
Since apparently everyone, save for Duran Duran who apparently do not much like making product, are celebrating anniversaries with reissues, I guess I am glad to wait for the Tears for Fears, since they put everything on hold again. Maybe next year. I do not see why they would not put the Seeds of Love box out after the last two boxes seemingly sold out with ease. Maybe they can have a box set for their new album, too.
Under the now-defunct EMI, Duran Duran’s fans were scared away from buying archival product. As you may recall, EMI issued 3-CD + DVD boxed sets of “Duran Duran”(debut album) & “Seven and The Ragged Tiger” with blatant sound faults, but EMI went into denial mode and refused to issue corrected versions. Later, EMI released similar boxed sets for “Notorious” & “Big Things”, and the mastering for these sets was fine, but by then, fans were wary of buying them. Interestingly, EMI opted to protect the incompetent mastering engineer who created the faulty sound on the “Duran Duran” & “Seven & The Ragged Tiger” sets. For the “Notorious” & “Big Thing” sets, the mastering engineer’s name was kept secret and uncredited.
While not all SDEs, here’s my wallet-busting November, which follows a wallet-busting October:
Steven Wilson – Home Invasion Live
Beatles – White Album
Hendrix – Electric Ladyland
Jethro Tull – This Was
Red Dragon Cartel – Patina
Possibly the new Mark Knopfler
And this is why I say no to things like the Rush Hemispheres set. Labels must think they release stuff in isolation to other releases. With so much other stuff to buy, I’m not buying sets that force me to get lots of stuff I don’t want just for something I do. With Rush, that’s the 5.1 disc. I would have happily added that disc to my list had there been a standalone option.
It’s certainly an expensive season. I’ve pre ordered so much stuff from Amazon they have offered me a business account. I sure wish I could offset the VAT on everything. I could also do with a Tardis to store it all.
Aiming for….
Both Kate Bush sets,
Lulu – Decade set (Amazon exclusive),
Family – At The BBC set,
Killing Joke 40th anniversary CD set (16 double CDs, probably in January though).
Once that pre-order button has been hit on Amazon, it is a whole lot harder to decide to delete it in the name of fiscal prudence!
Probably The Beatles – White album SDL but I’ll have to put that on hold for now as my family selfishley expect Christmas presents!!
I certainly won’t be using Royal Mail in the month of December. Last year I had two orders that never showed up and one that had to be sent three times before it arrived. Sticking to courier deliveries this year.
Killing Joke Boxset??? My god. 100 euro shipping costs inside Europe. Total rip off!!! They can ship this for about 15 euro…
My priorities are both Kate Bush boxes (providing I hear good stuff about the mastering on the first box as I have to pick them both up from HMV on the 30th) , the Beatles WA50 and I have preordered the Wings Big Barn Box for December, so I am fu&ked for buying anything else this year. Must say that I reckon its down to you Paul and this site that the Macca box is so plentiful and so expensive. Be careful what you wish for and all that LOL.
Looking forward to Bob Dylan. An incredible collection by know, The Bootleg Series, and this time focusing on one of his best albums.
Also, I plan to buy Bowie (box & Glastonbury), Marillion and The Beatles, but waiting for an SDE deal alert for all of them first !
Next up, McCartney, but maybe standard edition only this time, unless boxes drop significantly in price.
Just the Beatles, both vinyl and super deluxe
Best price from French Amazon with a 10 euro discount code .. thanks to Pauls alert on that one . Will have to give it a bit of a break for awhile but will keep an eye on the Hendrix set … maybe get some deals over Christmas hols . Still loving the whole Imagine reissue campaign… just getting to grips with it all and love to be able to buy the signed book now that I have looked through the collectors edition but it’s just a bit to much unfortunately… a true collectable though.
Ps nearly forgot the new Dead can Dance next week must not forget Dead can Dance.
They have to include that turntable with that completely rip off g n r box set, because that’s the only way they (might) flog it. What a waste of money!
David Bowie Loving The C.D Box set, Bob Dylan and The Beatles £325.
Next year i will save for November like i say every year ha! ha!
My wallet isn’t too worried – all the ones I’m waiting for (Kate, Howard and David) are out late in the month so they’re going to be Christmas presents from my family.
Admittedly my family are not aware of that yet… :)
There are a few others in that list I’d like, but K, H and D are the MUST-HAVES.
The White Album and More Blood On The Tracks. Might have to hold off until the new year to grab Red Rose Speedway.
Beatles, Dylan, Stones, Hendrix, Tull, Elvis and Howard Jones so far.
I’ve already received the Mott the Hoople box from Amazon France, cheers Paul
Kate Bush 1 st cd box set and Bowie Glastonburry thats enough c
November’s a wallet-buster to be sure but Ive been trying to spread the cost over a few months – ordering the Marillion from Fish’s online shop and the Howard Jones super deluxe set from Red Cherry meant payment upfront but at least I won’t be hit with a mega credit card bill when the Kate Bush, Beatles and Be Bop Deluxe sets arrive from Amazon.
In a weird way, I’m kind of glad there’s no XTC 5.1 release of TFF Seeds Of Love box this year to add to the financial pressure…!
Howard Jones and Ultravox cds for me.
You missed the limited run cd from It Bites..live in london.
This month ordered
Beatles super deluxe
David Bowie Glastonbury vinyl and the CD dvd combo
League of gentlemen boxset
Suede coloured vinyl
The last 2 have been delayed by 2 weeks also
Definitely the Beatles and I’ve heard there’s likely to be scritti politti deluxe editions? The small faces autumn stone was due?
Paul, I used music glue to order the new kinks box set, it came beaten up! In a terrible state for box that price – been trying to contact them and nothing – anybody else had issues with them? Pretty poor for an official store and for the price of the thing.
I’ve had 2 different issues from music glue from 3 orders. I’ll never use em again
Never heard of musicglue but amazon in the states isn’t that much better. I had to order an eric clapton box set three times to get one that wasn’t gouged or ripped or smashed up. Thankfully, amazon is great about returns. And strangely enough when I order from Amazon uk and have it sent to the states, they package really well. But overall, its really sad about spending upwards of $100 on a box set only to have it arrive in less than great condition.
Don’t forget Sunburst Finish by Be-Bop Deluxe.
The irony of this is that the company will deliver the turntable to the UK on it’s own which is around $150 Canadian dollars, however, they won’t ship the Guns N’ Roses set itself to the UK, which in turn means they won’t also ship the bundle of the 2 together.