Saturday Deluxe / 19 March 2022
Trevor Horn, Seal & Tears For Fears
Trevor Horn remixes Seal’s debut
Trevor Horn has created a Dolby Atmos mix of Seal’s 1991 eponymous debut album.
Seal was a major success, reaching number one in the UK charts and delivering Seal a transatlantic top 10 hit in ‘Crazy’. A US-only CD+DVD set was re-released in 2005, which includes a 5.1 mix. Unfortunately, this isn’t easy to get hold of and is never cheap. A ‘proper’ reissue is long overdue.
The Dolby Atmos remix was created at PMC Studio London at the invitation of Heff Moraes, the studio’s manager. Horn said the biggest issue was locating the original multi-track tapes
When it came to remixing the Seal album, Trevor is quoted as saying that the biggest problem was getting hold of the original multitrack recordings. “It took a lot of time to track down the original tapes,” he said. “We eventually found most of them, and what we didn’t have we worked around by using 5.1 mixes or live recordings.”
This is a curious statement, because the multi-tracks must have been digitised in 2005 for the 5.1 mix and it would be surprising if these digital files had gone missing completely. The other question is which ‘version’ of the album has been remixed for spatial audio? As many fans are aware, the original mix of the album that was put out into the marketplace in early 1991 (generally known as the ‘premix’ edition) was quickly superseded by a version that offered different mixes/edits of ‘Wild’, ‘Violet’ and ‘Crazy’. There is no way to tell the difference between these other than by playing them.
The bigger question is whether this work signals a major physical reissue, which has been rumoured for some time. The article about this remix in Music Radar ends by saying “The Dolby Atmos version of Seal will be available soon through streaming services” but makes no mention of a physical reissue. May 2022 is actually the 31st anniversary of the long-player.
Of course, one would hope that any CD box set would include a blu-ray with the Dolby Atmos mix, but stranger things have happened…
Tears For Fears / The Tipping Point blu-ray
As you may have seen, we have managed to make available an extra 500 copies of the xPropaganda The Heart Is Strange blu-ray audio available before we go to production. I was gratified to see a very positive reaction to this.
As a result, quite a few of you have asked if we might be able to make more copies of the Tears For Fears The Tipping Point blu-ray available, which is not an unreasonable question, given the original sold out in 24 hours. The most straightforward answer to that question – at the moment – is ‘I don’t know’. There are a number of issues involved. The most fundamental question is do the record label and the band want to sign off on making some more. But also, since this was marketed as a limited edition of 2,000 units, would it be fair just to produce some more?
So I would like to ask you, SDE readers, Tears For Fears fans and blu-ray purchasers, a question. What do YOU think the best solution is? And I’m asking this question both to people who missed out and people who bought the Tears For Fears blu-ray the first time around. If we assume SDE would be allowed to sell some more, I think there are two main paths:
- Simply produce some more copies, due to ‘unprecedented demand’, of the blu-ray, which is identical in every way to the original
- Create a new version of the blu-ray which includes Steven Wilson’s tremendous Dolby Atmos Mix but doesn’t include the 5.1 mix, thereby giving original blu-ray purchasers something unique. Perhaps we could enhance this second edition by including a stereo mix this time (which for various reasons we couldn’t do originally) and maybe even something like an instrumental version of the album (or some/all of the bonus tracks)
I would like to stress that this is not confirmation that ANYTHING will happen, but if we do get the opportunity then I’d be silly not to ask you, the audience. Please give your feedback using the poll below, which is a binary choice, but you can of course contribute more nuanced feedback via the comments (but complete the poll as well). Thanks! Paul.
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SDE Poll
If SDE was to produce another The Tipping Point blu-ray, what’s your preference?
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269 thoughts on “Saturday Deluxe / 19 March 2022”
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I agree with DenyM in that the Blu-Ray releases should really include all possible audio represented on other formats, like CD, etc. Because of family schedules and the desire to have a listening party with my boys, I was only able to listen to “The Tipping Point” last night for the first time. I was floored at what I heard. It is a great album from start to finish, and definitely both surprised me and exceeded my expectations. This will get a lot of rotation in this house.
Which leads me to my opinion(s) on any reissues of this… Because I felt the initial Blu-Ray missed opportunities, I would love to see a second Blu-Ray with the three bonus tracks, instrumentals, stereo mix, etc. But then I would be making yet a third purchase of this album. Alternatively, I would also love to see the existing Blu-ray repressed and rereleased, because this is a lovely album and more people should be able to hear this in surround sound. I’m one of the ones kicking himself for not purchasing the blu-ray audio of “Songs from the Big Chair” because I thought surely that I would be able to buy that in a SuperDeluxe, and I don’t wish others to feel the same regret! I don’t really care if that means the Blu-ray I have now for “The Tipping Point” loses some of its initial value.
Been reading the comments. a very interesting discussion. the consensus seems to be.
Finally, please absolutely do this so that TFF & SDE both get more $$$ and the scalpers get less. I would rather give SDE & TFF double the original price and let them both split that $$$, than to give a scalper 4x the original price, and TFF/SDE get NONE of that $$$.
God bless you for even broaching the subject. This was really a bummer of an experience having missed out.
First, congratulations and thanks so much on caring about fans demand so promptly. Not so frequent ! And to those who think a repress would ruin the limited edition effect, the idea I guess is not to repress tons of it. Obviously today, there is too big a proportion of these 2000 copies on sale on various sites at outrageous prices not to do anything.
Would be interesting to know out of the 2000 how many people bought multiple copies as opposed to single copies of the TFF blu-ray?
Maybe to help with fair distribution amongst fans, when a limited number release is available for sale, an order must be limited to one? Sure people could set up a new account, re-login and send to a different address under a different name, but anything to help stop the scalpers from an easy ride.
i think limiting orders to one per customers is 100% fair. why would anyone ever need more than one copy? unless they are worried, they might lose one, but that has to get expensive.
Lots of collectors buy one to keep sealed and one to play. I don’t do that myself but I know many collectors do.
a missed BIG opportunity to do a very-much-needed deluxe edition of this album – “Seal”
Looking to future Blu-Ray releases, just wish that the audio on the BR matches all the audio released. Very recent examples would be the three bonus tracks from TFF, the xPropaganda instrumentals which are on the deluxe 2CD. Ordered the xPropaganda BR straight away then learned of the instrumentals later and ended up ordering the deluxe 2CD. Two formats, two copies of the album, postage costs for two items.
Those that want the Dolby Atmos, 5.1, 24/96 etc can get the BR knowing they are getting all the audio. Buy the other formats if you need to. Not everyone is interested in BR as a format. It would more than likely mean charging more for the additional audio but must be cheaper than ending up with multiple formats of the album. The BR is still exclusive to SDE, all the other album versions and formats are still valid.
Also understand that it comes down to what the group / marketing people decide to do and some will keep wanting us to pay for multiple formats to get all the music but I can dream or should it be “all that we see or seem is but a dream with a dream”.
I was able to put the Tears for Fears Blu Ray in my basket but backed out due to shipping coast to US. I was able to get the album on vinyl (Target only with 7″). Back in the days, I used to be a record collector and loved those “limited editions”. All of those I shared with myself and made copies on Tape for my friends so they could have a “piece of the action”. When Marillion’s Misplaced Childhood Box Set was announced, I was like … oh well … then it was out of print. Reading Paul’s Site I came across the other Marillion Re-Releases (also the ones withouth Fish) and I was excited because I found new music. I had all Marillion’s special Editions but not my favorite Album Misplaced Childhood. Thanks to Paul, I was able to secure a copy because he announced it that there will be a repress. I am so happy and excited because that is the one album I initially wanted. Now that I own it, I have absolutely no plans on selling it anytime soon. I didn’t buy it because it was rare, but because it is special to me. I am so happy when they announced the reprint. As a fan: I don’t care about the value. I care about the music. I don’t care about how much money scalpers can make out of it. I am almost 100% certain that most fans think like me: its about the music and not so much about the value. When I mentioned to Paul that I was able to secure a copy of the Misplaced Childhood album and expressed that shipping was cheaper from Marillion’s site – he answered my post and said that he is happy that I got one. That is the spirit. And I see that for Tears for Fears too – which fan really cares about how many are out there, unless the wanna sell it. Cheers!
Don’t take anything away… In fact, add MORE than the original release.
This makes the original exclusive…. and now EVERYONE will buy the newer release with more BONUS EXTRAS!!!!
As a buyer of the blu-ray, I would be miffed. I think offering those of us who bit the blullet a download link would be fair in that event.
Good Evening everybody, maybe I may have missed something, but when does the vote stops ? , and above all when will the decision be take? I’m just looking to buy mine copy and i I hope to be lucky. If the new copies are sold in 2 hours it will be complicated
I bought the blu-ray right away for fear it would sell out quickly. I think the physical edition (DTS HD 5.1 mix) of this Tipping Point is too good to be reserved for so few people.
Paul said : “The blu-ray is exclusive to the SDE shop and is a limited edition product. Only 2000 copies will be available”; it suggested that the edition was truly unique, but it wasn’t *explicitly* asserted. Ok we can play on words, but I’m sure we were all once happy that a limited edition was available again for a while.
Thank you Paul for asking your audience and respect.
“The blu-ray audio is a great format for audio and you don’t want to see it die off”.
For me it is more about the principle of withholding an artists’ art from the people they created for. Why would you spend the time and effort to make a 5.1 mix and not want to sell it to those who want to hear it in that format? seems counter-intuitive to keep it from fans.
I already commented earlier, but why are people asking for a repress of the CD with 3 bonus tracks? That is not mentioned in the question, so why keep answering a question that was never asked. We are lucky that we get these special editions at all. Why not be appreciative of what we get, stop moaning and be quicker ordering next time.
This is why:
https://www.discogs.com/sell/item/1916881907?format=CD&text=Tears-For-Fears-The-Tipping-Point&utm_campaign=sell_email_new&utm_source=relationship&utm_medium=pm&ev=wh_new
I think the bummer for many is that we have families and responsibilities that take precedence over watching for new releases to preorder. Obviously most fans want to hear all of the songs, so when the bonus tracks are hard to come by or only on super limited edition it can be frustrating and quite honestly encourage file sharing when it would be preferred to just be able to buy that edition to begin with! I have purchased the TFF on CD, blue vinyl with bonus 7”, and now the 2nd edition of the blu-ray, not to mention the 4 downloads we received as part of our concert tickets. I totally missed the blu-ray and SDE 3 track bonus version were even a thing until after they were sold out, so I’m glad for the 2nd issue for sure… and I thought I had signed up for all notifications… anyway, I’m with those that say it would be nice to have a window of opportunity to order it just have it available to all who want it but obviously that’s not how the industry works. Territory issues, record company politics, etc. it’s frustrating to resort to YouTube when you’d gladly buy it in the first place.
There is a window of opportunity to order it. That’s how we’ve been doing it. A two-week window. Every SDE member will be emailed at least once, as well as all the coverage on this site.
Re SEAL – if Trevor Horn is getting in on the Atmos game, there are plenty of 40th anniversaries upcoming that he previously produced:-
2022 – Lexicon of Love 40th
2023 – Yes – 90125 40th
2024 – Buggles – The Plastic Age (OK, this is a 45th, but still – Video Killed the Radio Star in ATMOS? Who wouldn’t want that?)
1985 – Godley + Creme – The History Mix 40th (inc. Cry, simply one of the BEST songs of the 80s)
Didn’t he produce something in 1984 as well, that would be another true 40th? It’s on the tip of my tongue……
In 1984, he produced of course FGTH’s “Welcome To The Pleasuredome” ;-)
While some of the tracks appeared in 5.1 surround on the “Rage Hard The Sonic Collection” SACD compilation (and later, on the DVD included in the “Inside The Pleasuredome” box set), I cannot recall the full album being remixed in surround sound… let alone in Dolby Atmos, of course.
We are all collectors of music. Ultimately I buy Limited Editions to get the music while it’s available, not to get something somebody else doesn’t or can’t have. It’s all about enjoying the music.
The bad thing about it today is that since adults started to see the value in childhood items such as trading cards, action figures, everything now is collectible and possibly worth more than you paid.
With regards to music and limitations on physical Media, collecting for profit won’t go away.
The only way to almost satisfy everyone is to manufacture enough product to stabilize the pricing which then will have stock sitting on shelves.
The record labels do want to eventually eliminate personal ownership of physical music, there’s more money and control over the product with streaming.
The Tipping Point CD is the labels choice of most profitable format in the short term and available at numerous web site’s still.
So those saying they want a 2.0 version go buy a CD, starting at $12 instead of manipulating Paul to change the initial release of 2k to satisfy everyone. (Not ever possible, some are saying that the CD is poor quality)
I guess Paul already has a full plate and adding to his stress is counter productive to keeping the website alive.
Being among those who own the sold-out edition of the TFF Blu-Ray Audio, I don’t mind SDE repressing this issue for those who missed out. In my understanding this is a community of people who appreciate and share their appreciations for music/art, not a tank of sharks who gleefully take note that others missed out.
That said, loading a second pressing with extra material is a different issue, since it would create yet another collectable.
Can’t you separate the two issues: 1. Repress for those who missed out. 2. Maybe offer an extended issue in the future, maybe with participation of the people here re: what should be part of that.
That said, thank you Paul, for this wonderful work!
Best, Frank
thank you for wanting others to have the opportunity to enjoy Tipping Point on Blu-Ray.
Hi Paul, since you asked for personal opinions about a possible re-pressing the TFF Blu-Ray Audio, here are my thoughts:
I bought a copy of the first edition, and I don’t mind if SDE re-pressed and sold more copies due to obvious demand. I understand this as a community interested first and foremost in the music/art, not a tank of sharks who want to take away from one another.
I am not so fond of the idea of loading an additional/second pressing with different features, because at that point it’s no longer “serving those who missed out” but creating yet another “collectable”.
Why not keep the two things separate? 1. Repress the original release as is (you could add the 2nd pressing note, so that the two are distinguishable, if somebody cares) and sell it to those who missed out. 2. Maybe sometime in the future create a new, extended version including additional options.
Best, F.
I might be comparing apples & pears here, but I don’t remember nearly as much moaning when MOV increased the issue size of the silver vinyl Tin Machine II from 5,000 to 10,000. On the contrary, many Bowie fans praised them for catering to demand. Even 5,000 was a big allocation for MOV, who usually seem to work within the 1,000 to 2,500 range.
As others have alluded, it seems to be a particular demographic making the most noise about issuing more of the same of the TFF disc.
If you’re going to make more of something could you press more of the cd with the three bonus tracks? I got the bluray but missed out on that.
While the 5.1 mix would be awesome, I think the ability to get the 3 bonus songs again (love “Secret Location”) and a potential instrumental tracklist sways it for me.
A second pressing would be nice as I barely missed the first.
More copies of the same disc is totally fine. For me it’s about the content, in this case the new TFF in glorious surround sound. (And an excellent mix it truly is).
All fans of TFF and the format (music in hi-res surround sound on physical media) should be able to get a copy. Print another 2000 if the demand is there, absolutely.
But … if there was to be additional content, I could see that the original buyers would’ve been had (a bit), so there’s probably no scenario, besides a free disc in a cd sleeve sent out to all previous customers, that would seem ‘fair’ to that group, so soon after the initial release. Something like 50% off for a newer version with additional content, would be a gentle offer to those. You would only have to send out an email to all those who bought it.
In any case, lessons learned for next time.
I’d say, for the future, have a much longer pre-order window, without a number attached to the edition. Make it a number after the pressing.
If there’s for example 2973 pre-orders after a month, or maybe 2 months, press 3000 copies. Just round it up to the next big number.
And state it afterwards. “SDE pressed so and so many copies of ….”
Everyone should have the opportunity to get it. You see it on Qrates, and other crowdfunding campaigns as well. It’s totally doable.
The exclusive or collector’s factor is there anyway, having it only on SDE. The number is just a number. Because it doesn’t matter how many are pressed to enjoy the disc itself. The music on the disc is what matters to the fans.
great idea. collect the money via pre-orders for a period of time (more than a week, please). then produce based on the collected orders. nobody loses out. win-win.
I think the people moaning about more content being added to this set only bought the disc as an investment. Doing a limited run immediately lent this to scalpers as much as fans. Most people who even like TFF didn’t know TFF were still a thing a few months back. I will say though, the whole point in buying a physical format is to have the best quality and best content. Reprinting this with less makes little sense, including more content available now makes more sense. There is definitely a demand for a less compressed stereo master, as this record has been criticized for poor dynamics and fatiguing mastering. If more becomes available, which is a good thing, you really need to have everything, buy it again. At some point another package may materialize in the future, That’s how it works. There are real problems in the world right now, and this is not one of them. In years to come any edition will be rare, today, even a garden variety nice condition copy of Fleetwood Mac’s Rumours on vinyl is coveted as a rarity.
I agree whole-heartedly with the comment that the limited run was a boon for scalpers and resellers. I saw listings up on Amazon, Discogs, eBay, etc. for the 13 track version before it was even shipped out; of course for outrageous money.
I’ve been a hardcore fan since the mid-80’s. I was signed up to the official TFF mailing list as soon as it was available. I was crestfallen/extremely disappointed to hear about the SDE versions AFTER everything was sold out, and couldn’t understand why the official TFF mailing list didn’t notify its subscribers.
Having the second printing (with the 3 extra tracks [and maybe the instrumental versions], my preference) would be an excellent opportunity for us who missed the boat, but don’t want to enrich the scalpers and resellers.
Also agree, that there are greater (horrible) problems in the world right now. A little bit of happiness nowadays goes a long way.
It should be about the music first…..thanks Paul for your effort .
There are audiophiles who primarily care about the equipment they own (and show off)….so I suppose there are music lovers who enjoy having something others want but can’t have.
As someone who was lucky enough to get a copy from the original run I say print as many as you want to. I get the whole collectible thing, but for me it’s about the music. Let the people that want to hear it, hear it.
Whilst I understand that people would be pretty peeved if they were to order an edition only for it to then be made available again a short time after with added extras, I don’t understand why folks are upset simply because they thought they were getting one of a limited edition of 2,000 only for more to be made available!. Does it enhance your listening experience to think “I’m one of only 2,000 people to be listening to this” ??? Will it downgrade your listening experience to think ” there’s now an extra 500 people listening to this” ???? Surely its all about the music, and not how many of the edition were produced, that brings the enjoyment. Print 2,000 copies…..print 20,000 copies…. does it really matter?!?
i think the only people that would be mad if the 2000 copies became 4000 are those looking to profit from owning “X of 2000”. if the goal of purchasing a copy of the TFF Blu-Ray was to turn a profit, then i don’t mind (and actually prefer) that not working out.
Paul,
I don’t think you can just print some more. The marketing of the Blu-ray was that it was limited to 2000 copies so you will be challenging yourself and business credibility if you just “print some more”. I freely admit I bought 3 copies, 2 for surprise birthday presents, thinking this was something a bit special and unique for the recipients, my brother and friend. I am not opposed to a new release but if you do a new release I think option 2 would be better.
Even if there end up being 5000 copies in circulation, it’s still special and unique, no?
10,000 would still be unique.
Ok if that is acceptable can we also have more pressings of the SDE limited TFF CD with the extra tracks? This was also sold out very quickly and many missed out on that.
If Paul had 5000 or 10000 copies printed how many might sit on the shelf unpurchased?
SDE has to make a business decision on how many they can sell and uses the ‘Exclusive’ and ‘Limited Edition’ marketing tools to do so and if they all sell out very quickly (as the exclusive TFF Blu-ray and CD did) then it has proved a good business decision.
My point here is why advertise SDE products with an Exclusive’ and ‘Limited Edition’ tag that helps to ensure sales and when they’re all sold out just ‘prints some more’ for people who were not lucky enough to purchase the original copy.
This is Pauls business and I don’t think it will help credibility and future exclusive SDE product sales if products, that are marketed as limited Edition and sell out as quickly as the TFF did, are just reprinted.
You might as well market the product as “Limited To The Number Of Customers Who Wish To Purchase A Copy”
in a roundabout way, i am kinda miffed with the whole sale going by without me even knowing it occurred. I am a huge fan of TFF, HD audio, and surround mixes of albums, and this blu-ray would have been an instant buy, but the first wind I got of it was the “all sold out” alert. that, in and of itself was a negative experience. I certainly understand SDE not wanting to take a risk in over-producing. But there has to be a business model that maximizes profits AND gets the content in the hands of as many fans as possible that want it. I dont get to connect to the internet/email all that often, so somehow i missed this whole deal. I’m miffed and SDE in that moment was part of a negative experience, even if its hard to blame to them for it. I hope that makes sense. I really appreciate this site, so hopefully what I’m trying to say makes sense in a productive way.
The poll should have an option 3, which is to do nothing.
No it shouldn’t. The question is IF were were to do another one, what should be the approach? Doing nothing isn’t an answer to my question.
Fair enough, but if you could humor me for a moment please: based on the conversation happening in the replies, maybe the question could’ve been “Should SDE produce another The Tipping Point blu-ray, and if so, what’s your preference?”. I realize that’s maybe playing with semantics a bit, but I think it does give a fuller picture of the sentiment out there. That’s just my opinion, of course. It’s obviously your business and you’re free to run it as you see fit.
As I mentioned in another reply below, I’m just glad that you engage with your fans/customers like this and offer insight into your actions. I greatly appreciate it and it will always keep me as a subscriber, even if you do produce more of these blu-rays :)
Keep up the great work!
Another idea would be to hold off for the moment on repressing anymore, and then a little later down the track, do an S.D.E featuring 2 x CDwith extra tracks/instrumentals/edits/any remixes (i’m not aware of any remixes at this stage though) plus BluRay of Dolby Atmos plus 5.1 plus stereo 48/96 plus video clips and any live/tv performances that they can get licensed from this period, of which there were many. An extended sit down interview by Paul Sinclair with the boys on camera would be a great addition as well.
The best solution!
what would be your definition of “a little later down the track”? months? years?
Hello Paul, i can see why you reached out to ask for opinions on this. Trying to find that place where everyone is satisfied, along with the associated financial risk must a tricky one. I imagine though that the demand is there, just trying to find the what that demand could be for is difficult?
I can see the benefits of both, having been lucky enough to get one of the originals. It would be really nice to have option 1 so a) those who missed out get a copy and b) to stop some of the extortionate prices on market sites. But option 2 would be really nice too so something different is available. Perhaps another run in whatever form will meet with some disgruntlement from somewhere, so in the end it would have to be whatever works best from a financial point of view. Option 2!
we need an option that prevents the scalpers from profiting from a sale like this without hurting the SDE bottom line. i realize that isn’t a SDE problem. I miss out on a lot of great stuff because of this whole scalper world. my job/responsibilities keeps me off the internet for a week at a time, and I miss out on stuff that gets announced without much advance notice. tickets to concerts are a great example.
I submitted a vote for option 1, as I missed out on ordering a copy. I realize the people who got a copy of the initial run will be upset by another pressing made available thus making their ‘limited edition’ seem somehow less valuable. I thought of 2 potential options that are bound to spark more debate but here goes:
1) Reprint a ‘disc only’ package; nothing more than a disc and a case to ship it in. Something like a download could be included on an enclosed card where the purchaser could then download & print artwork that would be obvious it wasn’t part of the initial run. This option could possibly be sold at a cheaper price point if the cost to remanufacture the professional grade outer sleeve, inner booklet, etc. was taken out of the equation.
2) Reprint the run exactly as-is from the initial run but put a top spine sticker across the case where a ‘2nd edition’ designation could be affordably printed without having to reconfigure the original run package artwork. This option could even be sold at a slightly higher price point (say $5-10 more) than the original run; that should cover the cost of the additional sticker and yet not be as expensive as the resale market. Plus the buyer would know the increased cost went to the original supplier versus a third party.
Pros and cons to these ideas I know, but thought I’d put them out there for what they’re worth. Paul thanks for your continued efforts to keep physical music media alive, and always appreciate checking in on the site frequently.
Option 1 “disc only” is interesting. This would put the music out there for people that missed out first time but still retain the “collectability” of the first run so keeping the original purchasers happy.
Depends on whether the band would be happy to release like this I guess…
It reminds me of Pink Floyd’s The Division Bell 5.1 DVD. Different situation but it also happened due to public demand (too many people complained that they had to buy a lot of vinyl just to get the Blu-Ray). That disc was put in a simple cardboard sleeve.
If memory serves the 5.1 in the box was also on a blu-ray rather than a DVD – but, yes, a simpler package (cardboard sleeve?) might be an option for the TfF if Paul chooses to keep the disc contents the same (IF Paul choose to go ahead with any re-press at all, that is).
I would take the 5.1 mix in any format. a ziplock baggie would suffice.
Why would you make more with different features and bonus tracks that would essentially mean I need to buy yet “another” copy to get the additional material? This punishes the original purchasers and makes our product less desirable. Anyone that bought the initial release would also want the additional content.
The only way around this is to send the orignal purchasers a 2nd disc with the additional content.
yes that is a good idea. Sure, go ahead with the repress of the first blu ray disc, but supply the 2000 original purchasers with a 2nd disc of extras as is with the second pressing. Only way around it I think, otherwise it could be deemed unfair to the original purchasers, and no one wants that – TFF, Universal nor SDE. Only want the best outcome for everyone.
My vote was for option 2 because I would love the instrumental versions. Either way I’m totally fine. I have the blu ray (it’s great!) but if you print another 500, it will likely still sell out and at the end of the day, everyone is still in possession of a collectors item even with a few extra printed. If you do decide to go with option 1, I do like the idea of making it the 2nd print.
If you go with option 2, you’ll likely sell to the same segment (me!) and the other, occasional, once a week readers may still miss out and complain. A good deed never goes unpunished.
The only ones moaning will be the ones who missed out and forked out a fortune for the blu ray on EBay. Thank you Paul for taking the risk on these SDE exclusives. They are so much appreciated!
is there a solution that gives fans who arent able to follow SDE closely and only check in once or twice a week? like a long pre-order timeframe?
The solution is subscribe to the newsletter or become a member and make sure you’re on the mailing list (you must be a member already if you’ve left a comment). Everyone gets emailed when there are new exclusive products available.
I think my problem is I don’t check my email but once a week at best. I wonder if I could get this in text message form.
We don’t have the facility to do that. Basically, you need to put a bit of work in. This site is all about reissues, deluxe editions, box sets, limited edition items. You will miss out if you don’t engage.
In a case of shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted… would be good to follow what Black Sabbath did for their box set. Make the initial run of any new SDE release numbered. So that although everything else stays the same (content / labelling) the second set isn’t numbered. I know Black Sabbath’s set also had it’s re-issue numbered but everyone knows the first, what was it… 3,500 were the original press and 3,501 to 6500 were the re-issue.
No issues from me if more of the TFF blu-rays are produced and sold. I’m thrilled to be one of the original 2000, but any (unexpected) price inflation due to scarcity only benefits those who are keen to sell. I’m keeping my blu-ray and others should get the chance to experience “Rivers of Mercy” in 5.1 – it’s the best new music I’ve heard in months, if not years.
As for Seal’s debut – I’ve been patiently waiting for this on vinyl ever since I ponied up for a record player a decade ago. Please make this happen, ZTT/Universal – preferably a SDE with remixes!
thank you! i want to own a copy of the bluray of TTP, but not at the expense of those who were lucky to get a copy already. i appreciate that you, as an owner of the bluray, are OK with more being produced. i hope that works out for us that didnt get a copy.
Personally my reason for purchasing any music is to own and listen to it, so I have loads of superdeluxe issues in order to own the exclusive content. As long as I can obtain (and/or afford) a copy then the number of other copies in circulation doesn’t bother me, so the resale value is not normally relevant to my buying decision (my wife probably has a different opinion!)
Therefore I feel the pain of those that didn’t get a copy more than empathise with those who feel the value of their copy may go down. Repackaging is probably the fairest way to get the music to the people!
i appreciate those who were lucky to get a copy being willing to share with those of us who didn’t. a lot of gracious kind folks on this site.
I am one of the original purchasers and I don’t mind a second batch at all! I have been in the having missed out position enough to feel for those who are in it this time! Just repress it as it was, without extra content or leaving something out, I’d say. Has been done with Marillion’s first set as well. Your aim is, as far as I understand, to keep interest in physical releases high. As a logical conclusion, you should meet the demand for such, otherwise people might grow frustrated and turn their backs on them eventually. There is always the possibility to create a premium packaging for the first run in the future i.e. casebound book or something. If there is money to be made and thus the higher possibility of future releases (and a sparked interest in major labels to use you for stuff they otherwise would have remained shelved), you should go for it! And even if there are 5000 copies, it still would be considered limited. And it would become sought after eventually. I bought mine to listen to, not as an investment to sell it down the line. I love it and others should be able to enjoy it, too!
Just my 2 (and 3 and 4) cents.
Chris2
I’ve been waiting for a reissue of Seal’s debut for years. My hope is for a deluxe box with the album remastered and bonus discs with remixes, b-sides and what else there was at the time. Please!
wow, there are a lot of comments on this. I have the Blu Ray and it’s very nice, but I wish I had also bought the bonus track CD.
I don’t know if you would lose respect if you reissued either the Blu Ray or the CD, but at the moment, you tell everyone how many copies you are making which is quite rare with deluxe issues making it very hard to decide whether to buy early (not Bob Dylan or the Beatles) or hang on for price drops. The fiasco of the David Bowie Live Adventures made me wary of limited releases in general, whereby many people who did not have the early CDs realised they could charge a bomb for the last couple as the people who had legitimately started at the beginning would pay over the odds to complete the set.
Anyway, it’s really up to you to decide as it’s your business. I will continue to visit this site daily whatever you do, as long as you don’t bankrupt yourself and have to close down
I think it will be better to release some more copies. I saw the exclusive cd selling for three times the cost. Don’t let those scalpers making more money than the band !
good point. do it to fight the scalpers. wouldnt all of us prefer that SDE and TFF get that scalper money? i am close to pulling the trigger on a $150 copy of the blu-ray just because I’m afraid that is the cheapest I can get it.
An expanded blu-ray featuring a non-brickwalled hi-rez stereo mix would be a big success for SDE and a significant service to the TFF fan community. It would be irresistible to the many who find the over-compressed sound of the CD a letdown that does not serve the music well. Especially if it included all the bonus tracks in all formats, and hopefully the videos. And while an instrumental mix isn’t that important to me, it would be to others and there’s plenty of room on the disc. Such an expanded edition would also leave the original B-R original, for those who value collectibility/resale value over music. I couldn’t help feeling the B-R was a bit of a last-minute job, the priority seemingly to get it out as the album was being released. Well, now there’s no such deadline. There would be time for a pre-order period to gauge demand, if that’s feasible. (I don’t pretend to know what the record company requires.) As a buyer of the original, I certainly don’t feel like an expanded B-R would be a slap in the face. I’d order a couple of extra for Christmas presents. Paul, you’ve always put us music lovers first. And I’m sure you will continue to do so. Thanks!
What dilemma? Print more until you have exhausted global demand for a hi-res 5.1 mix. The whole concept of limited editions is profoundly offensive. I have been buying hi-res 5.1 discs since 2002, and now have many discs worth hundreds of pounds because so few were produced at the time. This make me very unhappy. I have no intention of selling them, but wish as many people as wanted to could enjoy them. I wish they would all be reprinted in as large numbers as necessary. I don’t think the music industry should ever pander to the kind of people who collect music for financial gain. To not produce more of the new TFF Blu-Ray would be immoral, and anyone who bought the original to resell or be part of an exclusive club should be ashamed of themselves.
The idea behind the blu-ray wasn’t to make it *really limited* just for fun, it was to produce as many as I thought we could sell while balancing the risks of being left with loads of unsold stock which was a real concern. We could have lost money and also you look like a bit of a chump with your partners (Concord, TFF etc).
It’s always easy to say after the event ‘it was obvious it would be a big seller’ but it really wasn’t. When is the last time ANYONE sold mainstream pop/rock releases on blu-ray in any kind of quantity?
So my message to everyone is we hope to continue to partner with labels for future exclusives but please cut us some slack while we find our feet and get a feel for the marketplace as we go along. These little adjustments and corrections are just symptomatic of a few bumps in the road in the early days and I expect things to be smoother in the future.
You’re right. I was astonished when I learnt that the Blu-ray sold out very quickly. It’s not a very popular format.
…for the readers with the (ever decreasing cost) equipment – it’s a VERY popular format both from the sound quality and the ability to (excluding printed stuff) reduce the actual size of multi-disc cd boxes down to one/two discs (think shipping costs etc).
I’ve been saying all along this was likely the situation. It’s a shame so many have been critical when you should be getting a huge pat on the back for taking on the risk.
Agreed. None of us know what investment Paul has to put into these things upfront and we must appreciate the risk he takes. Personally, I would have predicted a much higher number for TFF as their fans have previous appreciation of high quality mixes.
However, when xPropaganda was advertised, I didn’t rush to buy as I thought demand would be small – so I got that one wrong.
Re Seal – what the demand be for something like that. Absolutely zero interest from me but from recent posts here clearly others would be interested…but how many?
Great explanation, Paul. Thank you for putting that out there. And good on you for at least thinking about this and engaging with fans on potential solutions, while (rightly) not making any promises. The Pearl Jam fan club, for one, should take note. I think a little engagement with consumers goes a long way in situations like this.
“When is the last time ANYONE sold mainstream pop/rock releases on blu-ray in any kind of quantity?”
2020 – It was called The Seeds of Love ;)
Obviously fans also bought it for the CDs. But I’ve seen many people say they were only interested in the blu-ray. Unlike Big Chair, there was no standalone 5.1 version.
That’s a box set, I’m talking about standalone releases. The reason there was no standalone Seeds was that UMC had given up on the blu-ray format as a standalone product.
I still think it was a sort of precedent for how much interest there is in the combo of SW, TFF and 5.1.
my view is theres a 3rd option its a repress of the original but with artwork/back cover/different colour disc notifying buyers its a 2nd edition and pressed as such.
The main question is, will it be another limited run or will they produce an unlimited amount? I am one of the lucky ones to possess this beautiful blu ray. I’m a collector and it bothers me to no end when they say it’s limited and 5 years later it’s still readily available everywhere (point in case the Donna Summer Encore box). HOWEVER, if you do another limited run, it wouldn’t bother me in the least. It will sell out again in a few days and it remains a highly sought after item. So it brings many readers great pleasure and there is no harm done. Personally I chose option 2 because I’m hoping for the instrumental version on blu ray. I couldn’t be bothered with a stereo mix. That’s only annoying because then when you play the blu ray, you have to go to audio options first and select the 5.1 mix whereas without the stereo option, it defaults to a 5.1 mix.
The only down side of offering something new on the blu ray is that the same loyal readers will see it again first and buy it (like me). And then the same segment of casual, once a week, readers will miss out and complain again they missed it.
Lastly, readers need to understand that Paul takes the risk here. If he doesn’t sell out, he probably loses money if he is left with stacks of blu rays. Paul is trying to find the sweet spot where he sells out, yet no one complains about missing out because most readers obtained a copy. That’s a difficult position to be in. The sweet spot with Tears For Fears will be different than with xPropaganda. It’s hard to get it right.
“Paul is trying to find the sweet spot where he sells out, yet no one complains about missing out because most readers obtained a copy.”
Thank you Kauwgompie, this is indeed the situation. We didn’t have the luxury of time on our side with TFF and had to pick a number, which of course seems too low with the benefit of hindsight.
Whilst I wouldn’t say no to any opportunity where new material is on the table, the above points are mitigating and in an unprecedented situation marketing this format, in this era. So Paul must be forgiven for being in this difficult position. After also reading others’ comments, I’m revising my opinion in this instance to just repress it, keeping to minor differences, if any, such as catalogue number, to distinguish first and second pressings. So no fans lose out on content availability. Those who ae likely to be most unhappy are those who bought one or more copies for the wrong reason; to flip it and profit and those who have already paid a fortune to these scalpers.
are pre-orders where you pay in advance ever an option? I would give you my money well in advance (pay in full, and then some). I just can’t predict when I’ll be able to check to site to see if it has gone on sale and would likely miss out a 2nd time on another potential repressing. :(
Payment is taken in advance with pre-orders anyway.
you tagged me correctly. i’m the “casual, once a week, reader” who missed out the first time and would likely miss out the 2nd time (if offered). It happens to me a lot with all my favorite artists. I just can’t afford any internet time during the week, with work and family concerns that keep me from even browsing a few websites. I am lucky if i get a couple hours at the end of the week. that’s why i’m hoping for a pre-order method where I have a month to give SDE my money and they know how many to print in advance. is there a downside to that approach?
My perspective – I was lucky to purchase the original TFF blu ray. I missed out on Xpropaganda initially but have now ordered from the extra 500
Well, this one certainly is a dilemma…
Press more with extra content – this would be a major slap in the face to original purchasers. In fact, most of the original purchasers would probably want to buy the new version. Add these together with the people who missed out, you would need a significant production amount. 3,000? 4,000? True demand is a bit of an unknown. Likely, you will never satisfy demand. From the SDE business perspective, this might be the smartest move though as you would benefit profit-wise from the significant sales figures
Press the initial run again – people who bought the first press would probably feel a bit miffed if it was identical to the original. However, changing packaging or endorsing it as a “Limited 2nd Pressing” on the sleeve may seem like a solution but could also still annoy true TFF fans as they may now feel the need to order the second version as well to complete the collection. In general, there’s also the SDE credibility issue. Regardless of the obvious good intentions here, you dont want to be getting the reputation for saying that you are only pressing X amount and then just making some more if it sells out.
Whatever is pressed (unless you press a truly high number) will immediately turn into a new collectors item and ultimate Ebay listing. You cant escape secondary demand down the line (look at how many TTF Big Chair & Hurting boxes are still commanding silly money on Ebay regardless of the recent-ish repressings)
Determining factor may be how TFF themselves feel about this. Would they be happy being associated with a limited edition that then turned into a not-so-limited edition repress? Or what are their long term plans for this material?
I dont think anybody considered that this material would be unavailable again to fans forever. Surely there will be a super deluxe box set to match the others in due course
Not really a fan of it being reproduced as that simply devalues the limited run aspect of it . Perhaps another option would be a more budget 2nd run and leave the mix exclusive to the first run and not add extras . If you add extras then people who bought the first one will be missing out
I was lucky enough to get a first run one. I don’t feel strongly against a second identical run. However I dont think it’s fair to offer a version with more/better content.
As someone who was lucky to get a copy of the original release I would have no problem with more of the original blu-ray to be produced. Perhaps it could be labelled as ‘2nd edition’ or similar but even that doesn’t particularly bother me. I know that this release was a bit of an experiment for SDE so am not too precious about the edition number – I just wanted to have the 5.1 music in my hands and am happy for others to have that opportunity too.
I’d have more of an issue if additional content was included on the 2nd edition and, as others have mentioned below, this likely wouldn’t solve the original issue as some of the 1st edition buyers would also look to buy the 2nd edition for the instrumentals/bonus tracks, etc., thus limiting the new release further to those who missed out previously.
I’m a crazy collector and buy as many variations of U.K. Tears for Fears music in all format’s. Plus collect international versions if vastly different to the U.K. releases.
But I must say I’m really torn over this blu ray issue… In lot of ways everyone deserves to listen to this version but in another way I feel lucky to have managed to get a copy of the original run and wouldn’t really like this devalued if another batch was simply re issued.
Actually while writing this I’ve decided a re run would be wrong after I bought which was supposed a limited edition. I’m missing the Hurting blu ray from my collection and always looking to find a copy, so a re run of that wouldn’t be fair on the original buyers and just my fault I wasn’t in time to buy one
I don’t get that. The Hurting was never advertised as a limited edition (of course it was limited, but we never got a number)…
Omg yes! An instrumental version on the album included would be amazing!
I’m sure a lot of people have taken advantage and bought the BluRay only to resell it at a price that isn’t reasonable. Money, Money, Money…… Personally if there is a reprinting I hope I can buy one, then It will be for the love of the group, its music, its lyrics, to listen it ine immersive Dolby Atmos but above all not to speculate.
And I think those are the same people who won’t agree to a reprinting more Blu Ray.
So yes I agree for a reprinting identical to the first with the same content.
I think I can speak from some experience. As a collector who became a seller (back in the mid-1980s Record collector magazine), back to a collector who sold his collection (99% gone in early 2000s), then becoming a collector again (2013 – when I found this site) who sold his collection again (80% gone in 2019) and am solely a minor collector again. There is rarely a moment, when contemplating a purchase, that the bargaining chip in my head doesn’t kick in. If I were lucky enough to be able to afford everything I wanted with no financial consequences then that might be a different matter. But I would estimate that many have an eye for re-sale at some point, even if it is after their death. So a limited edition of 1,000 brings that number in to the equation of future value. Many might argue, and indeed do argue below, that they bought this limited edition of 1,000 units with “no thought at all of future value” but are angry that it is possibly being re-printed. Well, my opinion of that is….. they are not being honest with themselves.
The main reason they are angry is because they feel the future value of their disc will decrease. It is conveniently wrapped up in a smoke screen of “You said it would be a 1,000 only so you lose your credibility”, but no-one who has been here for years will leave, because you have bought us too many opportunities, you have saved us too much money. If you reprinted another 1,000 Paul, absolutely no-one who has asked you not to would leave here. Scalpers and hoarders are not that principled that they would turn down future possibilities to accumulate valuable items. I know because that is exactly how I would have felt. I would have stamped my feet, screamed “Nooooo”, maybe even delete the site from my bookmarks….. for a couple of days at the most.
Five years ago I would have snapped up this disc, two copies, but I saw it, I contemplated it, I put it into my basket, I deleted it from my basket as the reality of the new me kicked in. I didn’t need it, I didn’t want it. The only reason I put it in the basket is because I knew it would be valuable, an asset in a few years to come. That is where much of the dissent will be coming from, although many will still deny it until they are blue in the face. Future value.
This begs the question, what is this site for. To give increased access to physical music? To point out the dark holes where bargains lay? To highlight the best and the worst of record label offerings?
Or to line people’s pockets, to show where a quick killing can be made or to increase a collection like it was a stock portfolio?
The new me would hope for the former and firmly believe that this is so. I would reprint as before, another 1,000 if you can. Fulfil your brief as bringing physical music to as many people as possible, letting the many, not the few “Hold the music in their hands”.
Don’t worry about those who have other motives masquerading as “integrity to the original offer”, they won’t be going anywhere. You provide too valuable a service to them.
Well said Chris
Your honesty is impressive. Thank you for calling “integrity to the original offer” what it truly is. People acting like this is baseball card or comic book instead of music meant to be listened to is baffling.
Chris – I agree with the majority spirit of your post but would caution at the statement “The main reason they are angry is because they feel the future value of their disc will decrease.”
I’m not certain how to define a record or music collector for that matter, but I own almost 9,000 compact discs + another 2,000 4k, Blu-ray, DVD movies in my media collection. I don’t ever sell or trade- I’m just resolved to building a third level of my home made up of shiny silver discs I guess. Not at all interested in the Discogs value or anyone elses perceived appraisal of my collection – it’s priceless to me, and that’s all that this collector cares about.
Much earlier down in the comments, I offered my opinion and agreement with a repress alongside some contingencies if an amped up/deluxed 2nd Blu-ray version were to become available. I bought exactly one of each of Paul’s offered TFF’s CD + Blu-ray and paid separate postage on each to ship them to me in the United States. Any reasonable flipper would say I’m crazy to have not ordered multiple copies and attempt resell to recoup my shipping at least or, gasp…profiteer on the open market.
In addition to that, over the years we’ve all read complaints (on this very site) about advertised limited editions becoming not so limited with another press [be it in another color, offering the best bits in separate stand-alone release, etc. (Tom Petty “Wildflowers” anyone?)]. But here we are now, together, on my favorite site discussing this topic with Paul’s first Blu-ray exclusive. I’m not certain, but I imagine Paul wished he had more time prior to the original pressing to include everything he envisioned for this release (i.e. all 13 tracks in ATMOS, inclusion of the insturmentals, 2 channel hi-res stereo, etc.). Clearly that’s not possible, so I’m keeping an open mind to a second version with those additional bonuses as long as I have a secured/reserved spot in line to purchase it. I’d like to see more Blu-ray and/or exclusives from SDE and he should have the opportunity to satisfy collectors and be compensated at the same time with a second pressing if that’s what he elects to do. Irregardless of future value, I’m fine either way and wouldn’t regret my original purchase no matter what the final decision is.
Excellent post
The only solution to the great TFF Limited Edition Conundrum I can think of is to release a third limited edition product which comes with a download code. This would be a Blu-ray Pure Audio product with a hi-res stereo mix and an ‘unlimited’ stereo mix, both including the 3 bonus tracks. Additionally, it would include a voucher to download/stream the Atmos surround sound version. This means fans will have access to all the content they want to hear, which is absolutely the most important thing, without compromising the ‘limited edition’ nature of the original limited editions. Naturally this third limited edition should be available to pre-order for a good while, say a month. This is the closest scenario I can imagine to a happy ending. Because, after all, everybody loves a happy ending.
Hah! Excellent!!
I only want the blu-ray for the surround mix, so this wouldn’t work. I suspect others are in the same boat. if somebody just wants a hi-rez mix, would they be able to buy that from a high-def audio site in digital form? that said, your suggestion for a pre-order for a month is perfect. I can’t see why you wouldn’t want a long pre-order time frame.
I don’t see any problem about reprinting more Blu Ray and SDE CD copies. There’s a lot of specualation going on, especially regarding the last ones. If you have a look to eBay wether than Discogs or some other web shops, there are are plenty of copies on sale to 8 to 10 times face value! Which is unacceptable. We are talking about a group that sold 30 million copies around the world. True, this is another era. Streaming services have heavily scaled down phisycal copies sales. But if there’s a huge request, it should be satisfied to a given limit that keeps the canons of limited edition. 2000 copies for SDE CD are far too few for such a great group and above all, such a great work.
We are moving from a “this is your one and only opportunity to own a physical copy” to a possible new run. Given so many people’s complaints, I can understand a second run and I don’t mind. But making a second run with extra content would make me angry. Imagine that the 2nd run of David Bowie “Brilliant Live Adventures” has several extra tracks. Would people who already bought it be happy?
I second this. I guess it’s a matter of opinion if it’s fair to add more limited copies to something that was heralded as “this is your one and only opportunity to own a physical copy” . Personally I don’t mind as I purchased a copy for myself and not for resale. But if now it moves into reissue with added tracks then I would feel like an idiot, and it would make me doubt any future claims and lead me not to consider buying just yet, or at all, until a second announcement would be made. At the end of the day, you create your reputation.
A new one with the bonus tracks would be perfect. I like ‘secret location’ a lot and would love to hear it in Atmos. But I’m also happy with a copy of the first release.
We all love the thrill of possessing a limited edition. OK, that’s human. But look what’s going on when you go to discogs. The Blu-ray is on sale for a very high price : from 75 £ to 165 £. The limited CD with three bonus tracks : from 65 £ to 125 £. There are a lot of TFF fans that sincerely want these editions but they will have to pay an indecent price. It’s not your fault, Paul. Frankly, it’s nobody’s fault, but TFF is a band with massive appeal, and there was simply too much demand for these records.
Speaking in more general terms, I think that pop music should be affordable at a democratic price. All of us here built our record collections by buying cheap 7″s or cassettes back in the day. The situation is very different today, and I’m personally not OK to pay premium prices for music.
One of the most recent examples is the release of the Round Trip boxset by Ornette Coleman. You have to pay more than 200 £ for six LPs. It’s going against the libertarian spirit of his music and the era in which these albums were recorded. Buying records is not like buying a bottle of rare wine. If this is the future, well, I’m going to streaming services…
Full disclosure: I missed out on the BluRay. I vote for option 1 with a new Catalog/UPC number and /or text box on the back indicating something along the lines of 2nd edition.
Like others I would like to see a SDE of this release having Atmos, extra tracks, remixes, single edits, music videos, EPK, etc.
My first SDE posting from the other end of the world here in Oz. Thanks Paul for your website and info over the years as I’ve got some good deals from yourself and others advice.
I missed out on both the SDE exclusive CD and BR. I was lucky enough to find another Aussie selling the SDE CD on ebay for cost price as they imported 2 knowing that someone else would enjoy it. I returned the favour by letting them know about TFF Live At Massey Hall CD on AmazonAU. As I previously bought the TFF SFTBC bluray and collect MultiCh BRD’s/DVDA and SACD, I’d love to see another run of the same content for the new album.
Are record companies underestimating how many they could sell or just not interested anymore? Hope you get the go ahead Paul for another repress.
I have the Tears for Fears blu-ray and don’t mind if more are released. The number of copies manufactured doesn’t affect my listening enjoyment and I figure it is better if more people are able to hear the album in surround.
I just wish my first Blu-ray had ever been delivered. It seems to be lost. SDE tells me “talk to the Post Office.” Post Office says “talk to the sender.”
If you make more, please send me one.
Richard, your item was sent tracked. USPS’s tracking system says it was last in New York. USPS need to explain to your where the package is that THEY are responsible for tracking.
A friend who lives in New York tells me that the postal service there is all over the place, with some items coming from abroad arriving in a week, and packages posted locally still not getting to him a month later. Here in the U.K. a CD box that was sent first class signed-for took eight days to travel 100 miles from Newcastle to my house. 30 other sets that I know of suffered the same fate, some of them possibly still being astray.
In other words, it isn’t just you.
My package took a bit more than 3 weeks to arrive. It didn’t go directly from NY to NJ either, it took a detour to CT for some reason. If you haven’t already, force USPS to get on the ball and file a missing mail report.
Creating a new limited edition with extra content is a problem, as instead of one rare edition, we will now have two rare editions that turn to gold in the hands of speculators. I don’t see any problems in re-editing the already released standard edition, it’s something more democratic.
Something labeled “limited edition of 2,000 units” should be exactly that.
It’s unfortunate for everyone who missed on buying this and it doesn’t help the artist and that is why in the future an “open for pre-order limited edition” should be released for future media so everyone who wants to buy it can and there will be one run. The total amount should at the closing of the pre-order period be publicized. That makes it still limited.
I see no reason to make it any different. I doubt anyone bought it just to have something other people didn’t.
If I had been in time for the first run, I certainly wouldn’t begrudge a second run. I want to heard the album in surround. I don’t want to be able to say to others, “I have something you don’t have!” That would just be dickish.
Also, if the second run were only to have the Atmos mix, I would probably give it a miss because I don’t have an Atmos amp yet.
Thanks!
Also, doing another run of the first edition would surely cut down on production costs.
Great quote: I doubt anyone bought it just to have something other people didn’t.
There clearly was an option to buy the physical stereo mix, just not on the Blu-Ray disc for those bemoaning that.
I’ve commented previously on topics and only signed up because of the Blu-Ray Pure Audio Series.
I’m afraid of the devaluing of the 1st 2000 only released disc’s, sure we buy for the music, we also prefer the limited edition numbered over any others. (These weren’t numbered).
A reissue of the same shouldn’t happen, if it does the price should be raised and the original buyers should get a C.O.A. card for their immediate purchase and not waiting and hoping to grab a copy a week later.
Since this article is headed with a Dolby Atmos mix of Seals 1991 release I’d state now that hopefully it isn’t the 3rd in the Blu-Ray Pure Audio Series because I would pass on it without a doubt.
His charting in the USA wasn’t as significant as in the UK even with platinum status sales numbers on his 1st 2 albums.
Here’s a thought. Press another batch identical in content to batch 1, but sell them at the current resale price of the original set. This will make the new batch unpalatable to scalpers, and collectors will now be able to obtain this and also be confident in their purchase from a trusted seller.
Give the extra profits made to a charity of TFF choice (Ukraine refugees anyone?).
Everyone is a winner, including the first batch buyers who secured their set at the original, reasonable price. Ideally this will also lower the resale price of the original 2000 due to the extra supply, so an added kick in the teeth for scalpers
You want Paul to scalp his own product?
Hi dbobs,
your comment found my Tipping Point for having a good heartfelt laugh.
If Paul offers a second run of, say, a thousand more copies for an amount of 100 £ each then “ideally this will…lower the resale price of the original 2000…” ????
As we sadly don’t live in an ideal world the exact opposite of your theory would happen. As the disc would sell out again in a short period of time i’m quite certain that the demanded price on eBay and the likes would also rise to e.g. 200 £ for a copy of the first run, even more for a copy of the second run (if there were a way to spot it as such).
its not a terrible idea. i would rather pay TFF & SDE $80 for the disc and let them collect that money, instead of a scalper getting $160 for it, and TFF & SDE getting none of that action (except for the original sale).
Produce 1000 more of a slightly different one (what about surround for the bonus tracks?!), you will get 500 of the ones who bought the first one just because it has different material, plus the others who missed it first time around – and potential extra profits for all involved.
If you make only 500 more, and folks who “gambled” on the first batch can’t get the 2nd with unique material, they may be upset.
With books & comics, a 2nd edition is usually done with a different cover and a clear marking that it isn’t a first edition. but the contents are the same. would that work?
We’re all thinking too small with this TFF thing – they need to go full McCartney III on it. Multiple sleeve variants of clothing/chair/cat/title/background colours, each with slightly different bonus material and stagger-released in conflictingly reported limited numbers across multiple continents. And of course a Japanese release that has absolutely everything on it but costs a bomb to import. It’ll be huge, I tells ya – HUGE!
I jest, of course. For mine, the people who missed out first time around should get the opportunity to have it, and as the owner of a Dolby Atmos setup, I’d be happy to buy it again just to get that particular mix on disc. As for replacing the 5.1 mix with the Atmos one for the second release: if your speakers are in the Dolby recommended locations, your receiver supports Atmos (most newer ones do) and – perhaps most importantly – the intentions behind the mixing approach are consistent, the theory goes that there should be virtually no discernible difference between the original 5.1 mix and the new Atmos mix when played back on a 5.1 setup. The Atmos spatial information is simply folded down to the speaker configuration you have. Owners of older receivers would miss out, however.
I have no interest or need for a bluray which simply includes content already available elsewhere – especially the crappy stereo mix/mastering in 24/44.
An instrumental mix MIGHT be interesting IF it was something Steven Wilson created in his prep for the surround mixes. But even then, I find I rarely listen to other instrumental mixes he’s done for other acts. I’d much prefer the 5.1 mix.
As long as the content remains thecsamecwith the 2nd edition, I don’t really care what subtle changes are made to the packaging to differentiate it from the first edition.
I was working whe the first issue came out, so missed out. Would love another chance, but can understand why those who bought it would like it be a one off. Got the XPropaganada discs, but wasn’t too upset that more availvble.
I spotted the Seal CD/DVD in the bins this weekend. It was $25.
I don’t think it would be a good idea to downgrade and reduce content. Quite the opposite. IMO with the band and record label you should upgrade and add more content and maybe not make it an SDE Exclusive and make it widely available (maybe make the SDE numbered and signed to make a difference and the rest would be available everywhere).
Why not a super deluxe edition of Tipping Point similar to Songs from the big chair and The Hurting ?
CD (Album) + CD (bonus tracks) + BR + Book with interviews of the band, photos, etc.). And if the release date is in 2023 then why not add a live show taken from the upcoming tour ?
Lots of us have the SDE of Songs and the Hurting and I must admit an SDE of The Tipping Point would look good with those 2 box sets side by side.
I really like the format and content of those box sets (Tears for Fears and Simple Minds).
I bought the Blu-ray and would have no issue with a new run to allow more TFFs fans to have the chance to own it. I think it should be identical to the original run, for two reasons. Firstly, I bought the Blu-ray for the music, not because it’s exclusive / limited. Also, if a different version was released with content not on the original, I’d be inclined – I’m sure like many others – to buy that too. Which would defeat the purpose of a repress, as it should be aimed at fans who weren’t able to buy first time around.
Let’s hope Trevor has had a hand in the deluxe Lexicon of Love due out this year (40th anniversary). Any news on this Paul? Mantrap has been confirmed as part of this.
Very torn on this issue.
Would an instrumental version or surround mixes of the bonus tracks be nice? Or an “unlimited” stereo track (which is a reasonable demand considering a blu-ray is really not aimed at the earbuds fraction – and we wouldn’t have to fiddle around with downmixes to get a sound with far more depth than the CD; I mean, just compare the drums on “My Demons”, it’s no comparison)? Sure. But frankly, I don’t want to go through the trouble and costs of another order, and considering the amount of space on a blu-ray I would also feel quite asinine having two different but both essential blu-rays in my collection. So as a (non-British) customer I really can’t win in this scenario.
At this point, I would much prefer a download option for any additional material (like an instrumental version, or surround mixes of the three bonus tracks, which are all really good) for those of us who have already ponied up for the first edition.
Another thought: The 5.1 mix was really the main selling point of the Blu-Ray, as the Atmos is on streaming services (albeit not in the same resolution). So would leaving off the 5.1 satisfy those who have missed out?
With that in mind, I lean towards preferring a simple reprint with identical disc content (but of course indicated as a second edition, as others said) and pushing for any other content related to this album to be either available as a download or held back as bonus material for a future live release. (Long shot, I know, but at some point they HAVE to give us a satisfying live album-video combo, and there is precedent for including 5.1 mixes of studio recordings as a bonus on live blu-rays, cf. Marillion.)
Now I see others have expressed the same opinion, so I’m a bit more confident saying that according to me, a simple reprint would be the better option at this point in time.
I was fortunate enough to have ordered both the blu ray as well as the SDE CD. I would have no issues if more were pressed. I also think that the same format as the original is best in terms of avoiding another variant that might result in the same issue as we have now depending on how many are pressed.
I think that for Paul’s benefit, and for future reference, another poll is needed. This one needs to ask whether people would still buy the next BluRay in this ‘series’ if it was ‘limited to the number of orders received’ rather than limited to a set amount.
Personally I buy albums because I want to hear the music and I’d be happy for there to be (let’s say) a two week pre-order period, but it seems like there are a few people who also want to know that they’re getting something that not many others own.
The question is, how are those two groups split?
I think this is the answer for future releases – similar to Third Man Records (Jack White’s) Vault releases: announce the product, take pre-orders and then manufacture to the number of orders placed (plus a small tolerance for lost/damaged items). This way there is no financial burden on the record companies (or Paul?) by producing too many and then sitting on stock.
Firstly, thank you Paul for enabling a physical hi-res surround sound release to exist at all.
Personally I’d prefer Option 2…No 5.1 this time, but I’d also like to hear Atmos Mixes of the 3 extra tracks as well as a hi-res Stereo Mix of all tracks.
That way, allowing fans the opportunity to hear different, exclusive, mixes of tracks whilst honouring the SDE advertisement that the original 2000 pressings would be the only opportunity to buy that edition. I wouldn’t be unhappy if that’s not the case, I just think it would be a missed opportunity if new material is on offer on the table.
In the spirit of classic record collecting… the excitement of rushing down to your local record store to try and secure a copy of limited edition physical pressings, each offering exclusive material. Giving an identical audio release a new catalogue number would be an irrelevant move if the purpose was to try and satisfy that ethos, IMHO.
Also, if there was any opportunity for a future limited CD album release, I’d personally prefer to hear Stereo Instrumental Mixes on that format instead. If that’s not feasible, I’d be more than happy for Instrumentals to be added in Hi-res stereo and surround on a new blu-ray pressing.
I love TFF and this is a great album but I have not bought a physical copy because all of the available editions for sale are inferior. So if a true a Super Deluxe Edition becomes available with good dynamics in stereo, 5.1 stereo, Atmos, those three bonus tracks, which are excellent, then it is an instant buy, instrumentals, videos, outtakes, speed dating songs, commentary etc are all welcome and I expect that it might cost more as a result. I hope that something really cool comes out as a result of your efforts here. Perhaps announce the contents and have a two week pre-order and then produce accordingly. Cheers Paul.
This commentary would be a no-brainer if an edition like you suggested ever comes to fruition. Excellent stuff.
Repress with the same content, I say.
Or, if you decide to alter the content, really go for it and just ADD stuff – the hi-def stereo, the bonus tracks, instrumental mixes….
It can be SDE’s first SDE release :)
I am a major Tears For Fears fan AND a major fan of 5.1 and Atmos music options. My 7.1.4 Atmos set up is begging to play a disc of this exceptional album. I missed the sale by less than a day so I guess that’s just my tough luck but another opportunity to get this classic would mean the world to me. I don’t care if it had no labels, cover, or any identification; I’m into music not playing Pokemon. It’s sad music this good is not available in a physical media option.
Whatever decision is made I do appreciate getting to voice my opinion on this great forum. Thanks Paul.
I’m not buying, so this doesn’t affect me in the slightest, but I voted for just make more of the original.
My initial reaction was the initial run was advertised as 2,000 units, and to release more would be a bit dishonest, but my opinion is tempered after reading the comments about the increased units for the xPropaganda release.
As for extras on the second edition, that just screams double-dip to me. Whether it’s material or packaging, I’d rather make the original run something exclusive, and then the second edition a more generic release, if the content is not to be identical.
Paul, you should do what’s best for your business. The more successful you are, the more artists you’ll attract, the more you’ll sell, the better for all of us.
Any chance of more copies of the SDE deluxe CD of The Tipping Point being made available?
Having missed out on the SDE CD I’d definitely be interested in a repress of this
I voted for the first option. I’d be disappointed if a second run included the three bonus audio tracks, since I bought the SDE exclusive cd specifically for them, and went on to get the bluray as well. Getting all the content from both releases on one disc, albeit a bluray, would be a bit off for those of us who bought both of the original releases.
“There is no way to tell the difference between these other than by playing them.” — This is not entirely true. You just have to look at the track running times. The “premix” (early, first) version is identified by the duration of “Crazy” being 4:47 instead of 5:57 on the “final” (second) version.
I agree that “Second edition” clearly on the front cover, would allow those currently without to get what they want, and those already with a copy, still proud owners of a limited edition – Although technically, the 2nd edition will be even more limited! (And therefore more collectable?) Such are the outrages fortunes of music collecting!
This is why I say – just make it exactly the same. No 1st/2nd Edition.. no content changes.
They should have made the “first edition” a numbered edition. The second edition would then be without a number. Numbered editions are more “collectable” than without a number.
Exactly my thought on the collectibility of a “second version”.
Maybe you need to set harsh conditions for the selling of this one, Paul, such as not selling to anyone who has bought one already (if it really is about getting this too as many as possible, then this is a reasonable stipulation), and only selling one to any one person.
So I only got to listen to the album today (I know, but my listening queue was really backed up) – and it’s really wonderful. Listened through twice in one sitting. I ordered the SDE CD version here with the bonus tracks and it’s all quite wonderful. I missed out on the BR version, but now that I’ve heard the album I would definitely pony up to have that version to enjoy the immersive experience.
When I worked at Universal I remember sending production parts for physical products, and even a little thing like adding a simple “second edition” would require the art department to change the artwork and even possibly prompt generating a new UPC code. It’s a hassle and sometimes not worth the trouble.
A second, limited run is the way to go, since the truth is that it’s the honest-to-goodness fans that mostly want a copy of this. Perhaps a timespan window instead of a hard number might work (or a slightly expanded window for loyal, returning customers). It’s expensive for us in the U.S. with shipping, but everything I’ve ordered from SDE is top-notch, and I rather support the cause of a site that does so much for us music fanatics.
Missing the window can be painful (David Bowie box set collections, Wings 1971-1973, and the Depeche Mode “Mode” album collection), however, it’s the love of the music, and physical product, that drives the SDE community, thus making a small, limited second run the way to go. Anything new should be saved for a deluxe reissue somewhere down the road.
You can use the same method that RCA used when they released Elvis Presley’s cd-box. It was limited to 1000 copies. But there was so much demand of the box that they released second edition. Only difference between them was that first editon was numbered and second wasn’t. So those who bought the first edition has the real numbered treasure compared to second one!
Now that’s a simple, brilliant idea. If it were me, I’d also somehow make the initial packaging more exclusive.
That only works if you expanded it before the original release.. and thus could add the numbering.
thats what they do with books and comics more or less.
I’d love to have the opportunity to buy the BR. What I really want is a stereo mix with dynamics, so please try and make that happen!
While the original release was limited, it was also not expensive. So I don’t see a problem with making more.
I would like to sell my blu ray on ebay first, for just 110€. Bargain! Once done I vote for a new production run.
Just kidding.
Seriously it is a bit unfair for those who are real collectors of limited stuff. But it will come anyway, new version aside.
actually, i wouldn’t begrudge SDE giving the owners of the original 2000 a month to sell their copies, if profit was indeed the intent of purchasing it. Those that intended to keep it shouldn’t care what the value is, right?
Leave all the original content and add the additional material. That should be the third option. To remove content that was on the first version, but add additional content to a new one is the worst option.
It might make it feel that the original is ‘redundant’, but not all purchasers of it will feel the need to re-purchase. Then, everyone buying a new version would have all the variants.
Most people will appreciate that you’re doing a good thing and not pulling a fast one. Whatever you do, you’re going to get criticism and praise, and then everyone will get on with it……..
This
I bought the original and support you making more available for those that want them. Would keep them identical. Taking the 5.1 mix off will make it bittersweet for those that weren’t able to get the first issue and adding additional content isn’t really fair to those that did as they will feel compelled to buy this new run as well. Adding a ‘second edition’ blurb on the packaging as others have suggested seems like a good idea. Even if you release as many as before they will still sell quickly and still be a collectable item down the road for those that care about collectability and the limited nature of the release. Best to lean towards the fans who want to hear/own the music in surround sound and make more available.
Nice of you to ask here. Bowie’s team could learn something from that before they plan their next ‘limited’ release(s).
I don’t agree that adding extra is punishing those FEW that got the first release (and the many that made a profit reselling it). If you got the first release you are extremely fortunate to have this well ahead of anything extra that may come along, or even compared to the vast number of us that can not obtain this at a reasonable cost.
I would certainly suggest adding Hi Res Stereo to the original release is the most desirable option (not in question options), and Removing 5.1 would be a huge mistake, given the vast majority of Hi Res Surround fans collectors still do not have Atmos setups, and that those of us that can not afford this upgrade in equipment would be disadvantaged as well as providing something that has a much smaller market appeal – surely the bigger 5.1 capable market is more incentive to provide a product that appeals to a bigger range of buyers.
As far as the poll goes, the easiest and quickest option to providing a much desired product with a ready audience (large market) would be to quickly produce more of the original release.
Neither. The identical BluRay but deluxe packaged with Bluray 5.1s of Hurting, Big Chair, and Seeds
there is no 5.1 of “The Hurting” currently. They did not even bother when they released the Pure Audio Bluray.
I think do the second option but make the run limited only by timescale. So make it available for a week and if 10,000 are ordered press 10,000 and that is it.
If this had been vinyl you could justify a reprint by offering it in a different colour for instance but given 2,000 folk ordered this as a limited edition of 2,000 only, something surely has to be different about the repress. Limit it to one per person to stop the scalpers and perhaps in future
apply the ‘timeframe’ sales strategy to any future Blu Ray Audio releases?
I missed out on this like most people, and would love a straight re-release, but the collector in me feels that it wouldn’t be right to re-release what was sold as a Limited Edition …. however, just a different cover, or calling it ‘The Tipping Point – Unlimited Version’ on the cover would be enough of a difference to make it feel acceptable….
Adding some extras to a second edition would be like punishing people who bought the first edition. I can understand it in a 20th anniversary edition but not in a “1 month later” edition.
It sounds something that SW would do. Release something and then later release a variation of it.
how does it punish them? the original 2000 owners were rewarded with having access to music nobody else could hear on day one. its like people who see a movie the first day of the release. that experience isn’t diminished if others see it a week later.
I too was one of the lucky ones to snag one of the original run of the TFF Blu-rays. My two-penno’rth is like some others have suggested: run some more off, keep the content as-was (nothing more, nothing removed), and do what BBC Studios did with the first entry in their very successful deluxe blu-ray series of expanded remasters of Doctor Who seasons. There, demand outstripped supply so they eventually ran off a second batch but [as others on here have suggested] they just put a fairly discreet text box on the back of the packaging saying ‘second edition’. This way, those for whom it may matter to keep their original copy ‘limited’ or different from a repress will still have an identifiable ‘first edition’, whilst other equally genuine fans who may have missed out will now get a chance to own and enjoy these mixes of what is a superb album IMHO. I really like some of your ideas for further content – an all instrumental version of the 10 main tracks is something they really merit in this case – but I think I’d like something like that via the means of a different kind of release – say a companion 2-disc CD set with a bunch of remixes for tracks that would lend well to those (the title track, Break the Man and especially My Demons would work well as sympathetic, tuneful extended remixes) and then the album instrumentally on a second disc – maybe even see if they can licence that superb BBC Radio 2 Piano Room version of ‘Mad World’ too. Or heck, maybe do that on a blu-ray-and-CD 3-disc set. But as I say – I’d sooner that was a separate product that doesn’t duplicate the original album. Erasure’s ‘The Complete Tomorrow’s World’ set ten years back did that rather nicely – a posh box with some art cards and an interview booklet, and space to hold your original album, plus a CD and DVD of new content (extra mixes, alt versions). A companion as opposed to an expansion.
I love your suggestions. Aside from what you mentioned, there are also the radio edits of “The Tipping Point” and “Break the Man” (two different edits, actually) to consider. I recorded them off the radio and put up the former on YouTube but having them in proper quality would be nice.
An instrumental version of “Break the Man” is already out there, and it was also used in the video interview that preceded the video premiere.
The BBC Piano Room also had a stunning rearrangement of “The Tipping Point” that would, again, be a great thing to have.
I was fortunate enough to happen to see the announcement and be able to buy the TFF Blu-ray. In fact, it was a great surprise to find it even existed as so few albums are offered in this format these days. So, I applaud your efforts to create more opportunities like this, and at a very reasonable price. Thank you. I also am very much in the camp of pressing more copies to please more fans (whether a 2nd edition notation is added to the cover or whatever). And if more bands and record companies decide to follow suit, everyone wins!
Let me start out with – I purchased the original.
If there are only 500 more being made – I would vote for.. make it the same as the original. Demand for this far exceeded the 2000 units created. Let some of those folks that missed out.. get their shot – but if this is going to happen.. do it quickly, so it undercuts the ebay/resale market vultures. I think the 5.1 mix is a vital part of this release.. as I (and I would assume many others) have 5.1 system.. but not necessarily Atmos. How many people that bought the release.. would have only bought if the limited release was 2000, not 2500? If people are being truthful – almost none.
Also if there are only 500 or so more.. and its DIFFERENT.. core collectors are going to pounce.. those that ALREADY have the original.. and it will not achieve the goal of satisfying demand from those that were left out. For me..making it even a smaller release, and making it different would be a mistake (even if, yes, I would purchase it.. )
Creating something different, to me, is a completely different beast, and I would treat it as such. But if its going to be different, then you are opening the doors to requests for: bonus tracks, stereo remix, videos, interviews, etc.. basically – steps towards a SDE version.. If you are going to work on something new.. take your time a bit.. and make it a true deluxe (if not super deluxe) version.
Having bought the original I’d be annoyed if another version came out with different content.
Did anyone actually buy it purely because it was ‘limited’? (Other than to scalp on eBay of course)
Do another run of it ‘as is’ if the demand is there. If there’s still a market for it then SDE and TFF should reap the benefits, not all the eBay sellers.
I don’t think that anyone could predict, that there would be such a high demand for this album on Blu Ray. And that is why I hope that there will be more copies being pressed. So I am keeping my fingers crossed that there will be a repress of this Blu-Ray.
I also hope that Seal will be the next Super Deluxe Edition Blu-Ray.
I’d really like a blu ray with a stereo mix and none of the compression that has made the standard CD quite fatiguing to listen to. Not fussed about a 5.1 mix.
Paul, please consider opening a two-week pre-order period for any new Blu-Ray (or CD) release. It can still be a limited edition, but those who really want it will at least have a fighting chance. And you will get a better idea of real-world demand. As for TTP, definitely option 2 with a stereo mix and the bonus tracks, please. I snagged both SDE’s CD+3 and BR, but would happily sign up for an enhanced-content BR to support you. We appreciate all your efforts, even if we grumble occasionally.
My assumption is, the quantity had to be pre-negotiated with the label – before it got anywhere near a pre-order stage. As such, extending the pre-order period, when it sold out so quickly, wouldn’t change anything.
That made sense with the CD, since it was cutting into the sales of the regular deluxe CDs, but with the Blu-Ray I just never really got it. Concord were (and apparently still aren’t) not interested in selling that at all – neither as a standalone nor as a digipak CD/BD version – so it’s not like there ever was a need to keep the number that low to not jeopardize profits.
THIS! 1000% i am getting screwed by these midweek annoucements with limited availability. i just dont have the time to be on top of everything happening in the music world. and i keep losing out because I do my surfing on the weekends.
If there is an instrumental version being made available, then that should be made available to those who bought the original blu-ray. I have no beef with more blu-rays being made, nor even still including the 5.1 mix on it.
I might be slightly peeved if my enthusiasm and willingness to take a punt on the original meant that I would have to buy the thing again for an instrumental mix (thus depriving someone without the original blu-ray of any of the mixes).
Making the instrumental mix available even as a download (in FLAC AND mp3) to those who bought the original blu-ray would be fine for me.
Of course anyone who did buy the initial blu-ray for the rarity value might have different ideas, but I didn’t buy it for rarity value, it was the 5.1 mix I was interested in.
I did not buy the TFF Blu Ray audio as it did not have the bonus tracks that the SDE CD edition had and not having heard the album yet, so was hesitant to buy CD, vinyl, and also a Blu ray. How many copies does one really need? But now I really like the album and would probably pick up a Blu Ray audio copy. But could this Blu Ray be on an eventual SDE version of the album in the future? Original purchasers would probably like that a second run was not available too soon after the original. It would also be great to create a unique Blu Ray edition with the bonus tracks and making of videos/interviews, if the band/management do not want to withhold those for an eventual SDE version.
Sure, press another batch. Just change the catalog number and add a R at the end or something to denote re-press. Job done ! I should add, if you change the content you’ll actually make the situation worse because the flippers will see another reason to buy them all up again.
Though I like to think I was clever enough (or lucky enough?) to snag the TFF Blu-Ray first time around, I would support a second run as-is. The DTS 5.1 mix is excellent IMHO, and more people should have the chance to hear it.
Press on!
Literally ;-)
In regards to TFF I’d like Option 1 please. I missed out and I don’t have Atmos but 5.1 would be essential so would be disappointed if that was dropped. I don’t think most fans would object to another run. I wouldn’t if it were me.
I’ve no vested interest as I didn’t purchase either blu-ray, it’s simply not my format. But I was very impressed that Paul managed to get these exclusives and hope that the conservation surrounding the desirability of additional pressings serves to demonstrate to prospective partners how fruitful partnering with SDE can be.
I was disappointed that the Blu-ray didn’t come with the bonus tracks or stereo version (it made buying the bluray AND CD a requirement to get everything, though I didn’t buy the latter. With shipping and VAT added to the US, it’s just too much.)
I would probably be annoyed if another bluray WITH added content were released. However, the fact that the bluray was limited to 2000 just made me pull the trigger quickly so I wouldn’t miss out on the Atmos mix. I didn’t buy it FOR the exclusivity of it. In fact, not being a flipper, I’m not a fan of limited items. There are tons of DVD-Audio and SACD releases that I wish I had but refuse to pay exorbitant prices for.
I have no issues with giving more people the opportunity to get a copy of this bluray.
I voted for a simple repress and know a second run won’t diminish my enjoyment of the first edition I already own. That said, if a second issue is released/expanded with the 3 bonus tracks in ATMOS alongside hi-res audio for all 13 tracks…I have one request in that previous purchasers be given first right of refusal to secure a copy before they get offered on the site. Paul has our emails and could send out a quick communication with an ordering link in this scenario. It may muck up the numbers but I imagine the run could be increased to accommodate these pre-orders. Oh yeah, and let’s make the sticker happen if there is a second run :)
Totally agree with this option and give a discount to those whom have already purchased the 1st edition as well.
I think the only way to keep everyone happy is to change the matrix number on the blu-ray to show that it’s the second edition of the album. Anyone who is interested in the music shouldn’t care which edition they have as long as they have the chance to hear the Atmos mix. For those who managed to buy the blu-ray first time round, they will know they have the original run.
Sure, over time the first run will be seen as more valuable but for now it’ll block the e-bay sellers from profiteering.
Just been on Eb*y and these are going for £80 – £100. I missed out purchasing one the first time,so a re issue would be nice,as there is no way i will pay them extortionate prices.
I was lucky enough to get one and feel the pain of those fans who missed out THEN went to Eb*y to see blatant profiteering, so purely for to combat and upset those scalpers I would vote (and just have) for option 2. At least real fans would be able to get the music at a fair price.
Plus 1 (I’ e got one already, too)
Did you mean Option 1? Option 2 won’t stop scalpers..
Yes, if possible please produce more Tipping Point Bluray copies without altering the actual content on the disc. As suggested, possibly change the packaging if needed. Admittedly, I found your site by chance and after the initial offer of the limited runs of The Tipping Point blu-ray and CD version w/3 bonus tracks. At this point, I’ve purchased both versions of the CD to get all 3 bonus tracks on physical media. Those 3 bonus tracks are excellent IMO. I don’t have funny money, but purchasing both versions is worth it to me. I can’t think of many other bands I would do this for. I would purchase the Blu ray version if copies, at the same price point and with the same content, were produced. Certainly, I don’t want less content. Ebay prices are too exorbitant for me. Good for those sellers as they were tuned in and are exercising the art of supply and demand. I understand the offer of 2,000 limited copies adds excitement and exclusivity to the products. Those consumers are under the impression that they will have a part of a limited run of TFF product. I get it. However, as fans of TFF, we’ve had limited new material to purchase over the years. That’s OK. Life happens and Roland and Curt (exclude management(s) here) have great pride in their creations and production. It’s part of their musical DNA. That’s part of the TFF charm! I’m asking for a legitimate chance to be part of this new Tipping Point Bluray experience. I can’t wait until June when the band arrives in Philly for the show! We’ll be there. Thank you.
I bought the TFF BluRay because I like the music and am also a fan of surround sound. In my mind the more people that get to hear the album in 5.1, the better – so go ahead and simply produce more copies. Surely we are music fans first and want such albums to be as widely available as possible – we may have been ‘lucky’ to get our orders this time, but that isn’t always going to be the case and may be grateful if increased supplies in the future.
The more people that buy this, the better the future is for more albums to be released in physical HD / Surround formats. Surely it’s in our interests to promote more copies.
Voted for as-is repress, the completists out there will want anything with different content and reading the comments below most who already have the Blu-ray appear to be happy for a repress.
Seal Atmos on Blu ray PLEASE
Issuing more of the original TFF Blu-ray would be fine with me. I don’t want to have to buy a second one due to more content than the first.
Re Seal: A box set with CD remasters of each version of the album, a CD with B-sides, demos, and that acoustic EP, a CD with a curated set of remixes (let’s face it, not all of them are worth the time), and a Blu-ray with an Atmos and 5.1 mix of the second version of the album and all the videos would be the ideal combo, I think. Add a big book and voila, instant purchase. And then go do the same for Slave To The Rhythm (with, again, both versions of the album included). Someone needs to tell Trevor Horn that the audience for these things is slowly getting older and will be thinning out over time. :-)
I vote yes for Slave To The Rhythm too! I love the CD and vinyl reissues they put out and the Blu-ray discs.
With regards to The Tipping Point, if you can include a better sounding (read: not heavily compressed) stereo mix on the blu-ray I’d buy it in a minute. The mastering of the CD is an abomination. After all these beautiful sounding reissues, why in the world did they crush their new album with that overly loud mastering?!
The record companies are doing exactly the same as they did 30 years when they wanted you to buy CDs, they made vinyl sound crap. So now you are supposed to go running to streaming!
Record companies everywhere – we’re on to you! Long live the compact disc!
I agree, but the reissues were a mixed bag too, soundwise. The Hurting – rather compressed (the bonus material was better, especially the BBC sessions). SFTBC – quite good except for a few bonus tracks. Seeds of Love – virtually identical to the 1999 remaster, which wasn’t great, and a few of the bonus tracks were really compressed without no real rhyme or reason (“Tears Roll Down” had half the DR it still had on the 1999 CD.)
And then there was the abysmally mastered Rule the World in 2017.
FWIW, Curt used Ted Jensen’s mastering services on his solo work and he says he still enjoys listening to the album when running (=noisy environment, where compression actually helps to keep the music above the noise). Roland said the title track sounded great on phone speakers, how you could hear every detail (source; frankly, I think at this point every artist has professional blinkers and is not capable of assessing how the music actually sounds to somebody who hasn’t heard it all a hundred times).
I don’t like it, but this is the zeitgeist. Imagine Steven Wilson had done the stereo mix and then said, “nope, no need to master that”, like he normally does?
The funniest thing is that the bonus tracks are less compressed. They are actually quite close to how I think pop music should be mastered. Kudos to Justin Shturtz.
They did it nearly 20 years ago with ELAHE an album i still cannot enjoy for that reason.
Perhaps you could do both more of the original version AND a new version?
And offer discounts for those who buy both AND for those who have already bought the first one and want to spring for the second.
While at it….how about a repress of the SDE CD. “+:-)
(and if Blu Ray option 2 doesn’t occur it could always be part of a expanded deluxe in the future?)
I bought the TFF Blu-ray after being annoyed when the SDE-exclusive CD sold out while I was musing on buying it. I wasn’t going to make the same mistake twice! I’m kind of ambivalent about a re-release. As a low-key collector, it’s nice to own something that’s limited edition in nature, but I’ve also felt the frustration of missing out (I’d be tempted by a repressing of the SDE-exclusive CD…). If there were to be a re-release of the Blu-ray, it would be in the interests of fairness to purchasers of the original for it to contain slightly less than the original release rather than to contain additional material (maybe exclude the Atmos mix; who has an Atmos setup anyway?) otherwise you’re going to be rustling up another band of disgruntled punters who’ve missed out on a limited edition release, and the purpose is surely to increase availability rather than to generate a pool of collectors with two versions of the Blu-ray. I’d have to feel a bit sorry for those who’ve splashed out £100+ on eBay on the basis that this disc wasn’t going to be available again from SDE. It seems to me that there’s a moral obligation for a limited release of 2000 to actually BE a limited release of 2000 regardless of how sincere the motivation might be for a re-release. You’re welcome to disagree, of course.
Great news about a second multi-channel mix of Seal’s debut album. It is true. The DVD-Audio that was released 17 years ago is very expensive nowadays. In 2020, when I was building an SACD/DVD-Audio/Blu-Ray Audio collection, I ended up picking Seal IV and The Best of collection on DVD-Audio. The Best Of was slightly more accessible than his first two albums and of course, contains songs from those albums. Those mixes still sound unbelievable, + on the Best Of, you also get an acoustic set.
As far as the Tears For Fears thing is concerned, I managed to get the Blu-Ray but missed out on the SDE CD. It would be great to have a Blu-Ray with those extra tracks uncompressed.
I was happy to get one (delivered to the US) when I did. I acted quickly because it was limited and I didn’t want to miss out on a cool TFF release, but the limited aspect isn’t the most important reason why I wanted to own it. I say produce more with identical content. Having another release with different content makes me feel like “oh now I’m going to want/need this one too,” which is the norm these days for these types of items, but since the first 2,000 purchased with the idea that what they were buying was a one-time thing, it could be perceived as a bait and switch. Remember Morrissey’s line, “reissue repackage repackage. . .” I say offer it with identical content for people who missed out the first time. I know pleasing everyone is an impossible task, but we appreciate the opportunity to vote/comment. Thank you Paul!
I thought that Mr. Sinclair had banned that quote from this site…
As one of the original purchasers I would be very disappointed if more of this blu-ray were produced. It was marketed as a limited edition of 2000 and to me that is always part of the appeal. I don’t think anymore should be produced. It should always be available secondhand. If a different version was to be produced then I think I would have to buy that version aswell, not something I wanted to do and I feel it would be a bit unfair. I don’t have to buy it I know, but something would be missing that was not on the original. As I see you said in the original announcement ‘this is your one and only opportunity to own a physical copy’ why not leave it at that. Please.
I have to agree with this as an original purchaser. The indication would be there would more content if a new version was available which would mean I’d like but that aswell. A limited edition is a limited edition, and should not be available again in my opinion.
I was really tempted to buy this when it was first announced, but didn’t as I already had 2 CD versions on order and I don’t even have a blu-ray player! I know right. Then it sold out, then another in “the series” was announced. Then I’m like ‘oh no, why didn’t I buy it I must collect them all…’ I think I have a problem. But it can’t be that bad as I’m still not going to buy one, even though I have now been looking at blu-ray players.
I’m never going to have a 5.1 set up again, let alone an Atmos one, so CDs are fine for me…and cheaper.
For what it’s worth, I voted for the second one, for the addition of the Stereo version. But I’m aware that some completists might then be a bit annoyed about just having to buy that other version! It also might be a bit annoying if you’ve got a 5.1 set up to get a blu-ray without that option! Great that you’re asking people’s opinion about it though.
if its priced fairly (as the SDE releases have been) – and truly offers something different.. completists (or just collectors in general, who are focused on a particular type of release) should largely be happy. I voted for keeping the original (as someone who can be viewed as a completist).. not because I would be annoyed at another version being available.. but rather because.. I want the original version to be available to more people since the demand was so much higher than the available product.
augmenting a release from 2000 to 2500 isn’t really material, imo. Then again.. I don’t collect for resale value. I collect, because I enjoy collecting. I have spent FAR more over time.. than my collection would ever fetch if it was resold (with I have zero intention of doing.. while living).
I agree that the SDE releases have been priced fairly. But being available only from the UK makes them far more expensive for us EU listeners. That’s a sticking point that won’t go away as long as SDE is exclusively doing these exclusives, without partnering with, say, a European mail-order.
I bought both blue rays, and really don’t mind if more are pressed. But then I did not buy to flip. I think it’s great that this format is being considered and sold and would be more concerned that accusations of changing numbers after print and no more runs could result in this becoming too much hard work and stopped. I still see this numbers about testing the size of the market, which does look to be there.
Regarding the TFF Blu-ray, I passed the first time because, with shipping, it was something like $40. I just couldn’t justify it. The only way I’d spring for it now would be if there were an instrumental mix or something enticing like that. I don’t have a setup for 5.1 OR Dolby Atmos so while I like the Blu-ray audio format, I think it’s a little pricey when I can just buy the CD.
I’ve gone for option 2 but if it was me I’d release it in different packaging, say a jewel case so you can differentiate between the 2 releases-I don’t have a problem with more being manufactured but I honestly think the re-release must be different in some way
As one of the lucky group that snagged a blu-ray the first round, I’d be peeved if a 2nd run was produced with different content. All for extra identical copies being produced as it’s fair and the demand is clearly there. Don’t care about the limited nature – the more people that can experience this album via blu-ray the better. I think if you made a slightly different copy, you’d just run into the same issues with scalpers / people purchasing for the limited nature. Just my two cents…
Re: TFF Blu-Ray – Let them eat cake – press a load more on the same config.
There isn’t much point having a hi-res Stereo version for this as the dynamic range for it is as terrible as everything else bar the Blu-Ray audio. Unless a new Stereo version is produced just for this re-release…then everyone here will double-dip again meaning you’ll probably have the same problem as they all sell out again into the wrong hands.
Just re-release it as-it-was originally
Re TFF The Tipping Point blu-ray, I’d go for option 1 with a clear difference or addition stating it was a second pressing and of how many. That way everyone gets the same content, even if completists would still want both. I would not like anything else added (or indeed left off) as it would then make it necessary to buy that version as well if you alredy have the original. With utility bills, petrol and everything else going up in price as of oooh, just about now, I think I could do without that. Maybe if there is extra content to be had it could form part of another SDE project at a later date? Maybe a various artists blu-ray audio when you’ve got a few more under your belt similar to the SDE first decade book, tough not in ten years time of course!
Is the TFF Blu-ray too limited or not limited enough ? People complain about both ! Clearly, you cannot please everyone. So, just do whatever you want ! But, in today’s context, it’s foolish to prevent fans from buying physical products…
The 2,000 were sold out before those of us in the US had a chance.
This isn’t actually true. They were available for more or less exactly 24 hours. So there was availability when UK was asleep and US was awake.
Not true – I ordered when the email went out and was able to get one.
I am on the West Coast in the US and was able to order this on the day it was announced. They were still available when I read the post that day.
You may sign me in for the Seal Dolby Atmos Mix on Blu-ray !
Maybe Trevor Horn would do the same for the Grace Jones – Slave to the Rhythm album, I’m very curious what it sounds like in Dolby Atmos or a 5.1 mix.
I’d kill for a Super Deluxe Edition of Grace Jones’ “Slave to the Rhythm”
As would I! A Dolby Atmos or a 5.1 mix of Slave to the Rhythm would be amazing. And alternate versions, demos, etc. would be the frosting on the cake.
I don’t really see a negative in two differently produced versions of an album as it’s not like we have a gun to our head forcing us to replace any original release. It does seem a new(ish) trend though the oldest I can think of is Killing Joke “Brighter Than A Thousand Suns” restored Chris Kimsey mix. I bought it as love the album (a lot of KJ fans hate it mind) but found the restored mixes lacking. Obviously a lot of diehard fans preferred it to the original as a rougher sound was back and synths/eighties style production gone to a degree. I’ve always liked both sides of KJ so it’s not a concern Hell I even love “Outside The Gate”!
Anyone annoyed that more people are able to enjoy an identical repressed tff Blu-ray needs to take a long look at themselves. Buying something just because it’s limited is missing the point and sulking because a few more people can have one is just sad.
A revised version would probably end up being bought by the same people as bought the first one so would probably actually annoy those who missed the first chance and then a second even more.
I have absolutely no problem in more copies being made as yes more people should have the chance to buy it.
I don’t understand anyone who get’s funny about it being less of a limited edition.
I don’t have surround so am listening to a two channel mix down.
It sounds great to me but I think ideally a stereo mix should have been included as standard (not a ‘dig’ at you Paul, I love what you’ve done as you know:))
I’d rather no stereo mix on the new blu ray as I could do without spending any more at the moment!
If you do manage to reissue the TFF blu ray, then a pcm stereo version at 96/24 would be good for me. The Atmos down mix just didn’t sound right on a stereo setup. (I do not have space or money for a full surround system). A lot of the instruments sounded very distant and quiet. A stereo version would be good for any future releases as well. I have ordered the xPropaganda blu ray and this does have a stereo version, albeit at 48/24. I really appreciate you trying to look after us Paul.
Gary, I noticed that the Atmos sounded quiet too, but the 5.1 from the Blu-Ray came through clear and loud on my stereo setup and sounded better than the official stereo mix. :)
Thanks for asking Paul. I think whichever way you look at it, there will be pros and cons. As an early bird, I was happy that I had something rather exclusive. Producing something again or slightly different detracts from the original, whichever way you look at it and here’s why:
The disappointment for the original buyers is obvious and needs no explanation. However, I think that if you make another batch with different content, the die hard fans will want that version too as we’ve seen many posts on social media showing 3-4 versions bought by one person. It’s good for the seller and the band but not fair towards others who thought they had “all”.
Secondly, including something like the instrumentals on a new version is rather offensive and be more of a marketing trick to me cause most of us would love to have that. We would then have to shell out money again to get yet another version and this signals a slippery slope for future offerings: will future releases be subject to different editions as demand increases? That perception is easily created. Theoretically, SDE could keep producing alternate versions as “exclusives” and it will detract from your brand you’ve so successfully created IMO.
For the future, I’d recommend no longer selling an exclusive batch promising 2000 copies only. I’d recommend that you offer 2000 but state clearly that the supply will be amended based on demand. It sets fair expectations in people’s minds and no later disappointments for those of us proud to have something exclusive.
So: my vote, make more of the original BR if you have to pick.
Cheers and thank you again for making my musical journeys happier.
I totally agree about the promising of 2000 copies and the statement that there would be no more afterwards. From the get-go, I saw the writing on the wall. It made sense for the exclusive CD edition. For the Blu-Ray, not so much.
If I had one of the original 2000 pressings I certainly wouldn’t mind an extra run for those who missed out. The fact the demand for this particular physical media is the important thing, and should be encouraged as much as possible.
Re. Seal. I’m vaguely interested in a 5.1/ Dolby Atmos mix but the main priority for me is that we get a Deluxe Edition that includes all the b-sides and mixes.
I’m one of the lucky ones who was able to purchase “The Tipping Point” Blu-ray here. I love it, and I know how lucky I am to have gotten in when it was anno7nced.
I am not worried about resale value, so I’m content if more copies are pressed “as-is” so more fans have access to it.
I did however vote for option #2, only because I would buy a second copy if it included high-res stereo.
I would go so far as to call it a deluxe edition to differentiate the two versions by also adding promo videos, demos, or instrumental mixes as suggested.
Ultimately a second run could increase exposure to the album, which is well deserved for the band as it is an amazing work of art.
Thanks for asking!
As I’ve seen with Bowie stuff on various pages, producing a second slightly different product could create a similar issue as the completists will want both! Loads complained about the BLA fiasco, but I’m sure another one would follow if they made the represses different even in subtle ways.
(I voted for a repress of the original but would probably buy the other one too if it was produced!)
Regarding the Tears For Fears Blu Ray.
As one of the lucky ones who managed to get a copy I’d feel a bit disgruntled if you were to simply make an identical batch. It was sold as a limited edition after all. However, knowing that there are a lot of people who missed out on getting a copy, I’d suggest if you did another run of the original disc you make it identifiable either by slightly different artwork or as previously suggested just the simple addition of the words ‘Second Edition’ somewhere in the disc and the sleeve. That way those who missed out will have the opportunity to buy a physical copy of the music (without having to pay over the odds on selling sites) whilst those that have the original pressing won’t feel they have been cheated. Hopefully that would keep most people happy.
Seal’s back catalogue really needs some reissue love. I’m sure some great SDEs could be made and the original albums go for silly money on Discogs.
As for TFF – I can understand if you pay a premium price for something that is supposed to be limited and then find out that it isn’t. But if you are buying something at a standard price (limited or not) and then if gets reprinted, is that a reason to be annoyed?
Personally I am all for making as many copies available as ‘fans’ want. If that annoys the scalpers so much the better.
Re: TFF Blu-ray. I didn’t buy the first pressing because it was limited. I bought it for the content, i.e. the 5.1/Atmos mix. And if I had missed out on this, I would be more than happy to see a second pressing. So, go ahead and make people happy! And maybe add something on the cover that indicates “Second pressing”. But please, same content. Let’s not be cheap on this ;)
The appeal of limited editions to collectors is purely that. I’m not a reseller or flipper but I would be a bit peeved if another 2000 were produced (just pulling a number out of the air there obviously as any identical qty would diminish its stature).
As a record collector, the furthest thing from my mind is monetary value and reselling. People collect all sorts of things not just in the area of music. Ask any collector of anything what the draw is about Ltd editions. It’s the the chase, the buzz, the feeling of getting that limited item many others don’t have. Then there that feeling when you don’t get one and you missed out. All part of collecting anything.
I think the second option with the 5.1 mix left off with be the better option.
As a collector, I’d buy one of those too!!
The blu Ray of TFF latest album still remains a collectable even if more would be pressed. I would not change the contents at all. I’d rather see a batch of stand-alone Seeds of Love blu ray being pressed and made available through this channel.
Not into blu ray audio because I don’t have the place to buy proper equipment to enjoy it. I would love to see more copies of the CD with the 3 bonus tracks.
Although if you put them on the new blu ray I may actually buy it despite only being able of playing the blu ray through my built in tv speakers…
That Seal debut album is absolutely stunning and every song on it is top notch especially Deep Water. I had the cassette to start with and what a revelation it was getting the CD with the different mixes. I’m not particularity interested in Dolby Atmos as it costs a fortune for the equipment and i just have a bog standard surround system. Luckily i have both those DVD-Audio albums from 2005 but i would like to see his albums reissued with loads of extra stuff. I do remember about 10 years ago that classic pop touted this as happening but it never came to nothing. You can tell by the track times on the debut album about the differences.
Hi Paul,
I have only a passing interest in the Tears for Fears disc, however I think a third alternative may be the most fair – a second edition, different in some cosmetic way but without additional content. Sorry, I know you didn’t ask for suggestions.
Much as the site’s main focus is on reissues with bonus material, my thinking is that most buyers of a ‘new’ release would be more miffed at having to double dip for new content so soon, rather than that something they believed would be limited to 2,000 copies is now limited to 3,000. It would also be different, also, if there was a ‘premium’ paid for the limited nature of the product, which I don’t think applies here.
Just my opinion, of course.
When the xPropaganda quantity was bumped from “1000 worldwide” I did feel the very tiniest hint of annoyance that I hadn’t snagged quite as much of an exclusive item, but that was more than offset by the immense joy of knowing that scalpers would be taking a loss on it. I think a fair solution would be to offer refunds for any of the first 2000 that people want to send theirs back because the edition size changed. Probably not a lot of admin work as few people would take you up on this, but worth it to know who the scalpers are.
The Tipping Point is one of TFF’s best albums ever, the blu-ray is superb. It would be sad if not more fans could enjoy it.
Interesting discussion. As someone who ran like hell to capture the xPropaganda Blu-ray, I must admit to feeling slightly miffed that another 500 became available. On reflection, it’s wonderful that you’re making these available for us, and so I can’t really get over excited about either option. It’s just great to see SDE flourish and the work you’ve been doing over the past few years get the recognition it deserves. First and foremost you’re a fan like the rest of us, so I know you will do the best you can for the real fans.
I am not very excited by a new batch of blu-rays. It was firmly stated that they would be limited to 2.000 copies. I acted quickly and was very happy to have something special.
I guess I would not be totally averse to one more batch of identical copies. With option two I suddenly end up with the version of the blu ray that only has half of the content turning it from a limited desirable item into a slightly inferior item. Does not feel right to me. As I can’t choose for the option “no more extra copies” it does feel the decision already has been made that it is going to be either option 1 or 2. Just my two cents….
I bought the first edition and would be the first in line for a second “expanded” edition with a much needed uncrushed/ dynamic version of the stereo mix. If you add instrumentals and bonus tracks, even better.
Missing out the first time I would say, the more content, the better. But I can also imagine those who bought the first ‘pressing’ might be very annoyed that they do not get the additional content.
Would it not be possible to have te first batch of 2000 available to stores/ebay/ amazon etc and have the second batch for those who bought the first batch and the new buyers?
As for the Tears For Fears Blu Ray, if some more were pressed, perhaps ‘Second Edition’ could be printed on the back sleeve? This would keep the first purchasers happy knowing their purchase are still the first pressings and gives those that missed out another chance to purchase the Blu Ray. Sadly the odd Ebay scalper will make a tidy profit from SDE and all the hard work that goes into making these things happen. The other route (as stated by Paul) is to press a new product similar to the old one with larger pressing numbers, which includes the same disc and perhaps with extras, again with a slightly different sleeve to acknowledge a repress. Hopefully the poll will give some clarity on what SDE readers would like to see. :-)
I agree second edition sounds a great idea but then that may lead to collectors also buying that!. Don’t think there is an easy solution but the more the merrier. Happy days for those who missed it, and I bet there are a lot who want it. Why not make a bit of money for yourself and satisfy the demand.
The first two Seal albums are long overdue deluxe remasters. Those non-album tracks on the singles, such as “Sparkle”, “A minor groove” and “come see what love has done” need a collective home, not to mention that piano version of “Dreamin in metaphors”
I could go on…..
I would produce a new version of the Blu-ray including the three bonus tracks, the instrumental version of the album, and if possible some video material like TTP videoclip and some interviews.
Hugely applaud you asking the question on this one, Paul, as I know it’s governed by wanting to please everyone (possibly an impossible task!) through fairness and understanding the appeal of limited physical product.
As someone who missed out and has been keeping a keen eye to see if you found any more copies down the back of the sofa, I’m up for either option… Whilst I can understand anyone who nabbed a copy of the original feeling a twinge of disappointment if it becomes ‘less’ limited, really that’s perhaps only an issue if they were considering its worth. And really: unless you’re wanting to make a profit on resale sites, isn’t its worth/value the greatness of the thing itself?
I suspect anyone who did buy the original wouldn’t want a new version to be “better” than the one they bought (understandable), so I’m guessing a limited rerun due to popular demand might be your best option…
With the TFF Blu-ray, if you make it identical in every way, then people who bought it first time may feel disgruntled (though unlikely to voice it here :-) ), but if you make a new version with extra / different things then people who bought it the first time may feel compelled to buy a second one.
Why not produce one that has the same content as the first one, but a different serial number that distinguishes it was second run? This could even be on the sleeve.
Making a slight difference to the sleeve artwork to distinguish them would be easy. When I said ‘identical’, I was largely referring to the audio/content on the disc.
I totaly agree with you.
NObody should feel anything. If they have the Blu ray, good for them, no need to begrudge anyone else. God bless anyone releasing atmos blu rays at this price. THANK YOU.