Saturday Deluxe / 5 March 2022
Chartwatch and Glastonbury


Chartwatch
Tears For Fears‘ new album The Tipping Point entered the UK chart at number two yesterday, after selling 24,462 copies. They were beaten to the top spot by West London rapper Central Cee, who registered 29,764 ‘sales’ although only about 20k was physical, including more than 6,000 cassettes. The key difference was in streaming, with the Shepherd Bush-born rapper clocking up 9418 ‘sales-equivalent’ streams. Roland and Curt were number one in the vinyl albums chart, and most other weeks would easily have scored a number one on the main chart with those sales (indeed, it’s the highest selling album to enter at number two in the first week in 2022). Them’s the breaks. I still think the main UK album chart is a fudge and overly rewards the ‘airplay’ of streaming, penalising heritage-type acts whose fans are willing to pay money for albums.
Elsewhere, Johnny Marr’s Fever Dreams Pts 1-4 entered at number four (11k sales) but there will little going on in the album chart from a reissue point of view. Things are quiet right now.

Glastonbury line up announced
Paul McCartney will headline the Pyramid Stage at Glastonbury this year as the line-ups were confirmed this week. The festival was not held in either 2020 or 2021 due to COVID-19 restrictions, so ticket holders would have bought their tickets way back in 2019! Other headliners include Billie Eilish, Kendrick Lamar and Diana Ross. Of course, there’s a lot more to it than just these big names and the image above gives a list of the currently announced artists playing.
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All music (organized sound, let’s say) is good music. At least, the person who makes it will like it, there’s always somebody who likes listening to it. So, the function, which can be many, of music is fulfilled. So it’s good music. If I don’t like some music, it’s because I’m not getting it, it’s beyond my aural frame(s). There’s music I don’t like, which still, is I think (or rather feel) good music. I couldn’t understand why Duke Ellington was so much liked and admired by some. After a few decades I finally got it. When, why and how is rather a mystery to me. It only took a few days, after the epiphany, to become a flood of new, great, wonderful sounds. In this consumer society, it meant that I bought almost every available record. About 160 albums, second hand and, the moment being just before the vynil hysteria (2012-13) real cheap (5€ a piece) more or less, in about 2 years time. It’s a great collection through which I can browse for hours, even without listening to it. Now, I still understood why at first I didn’t like that music too much. It was actually the same reason why now I like it. The reason itself is here of no importance. It only meant that not the music had changed, but I had changed. Maybe even, becàuse of the music. Music is the greatest gift of the universe.
Received my Tipping Point blu ray today. Sounds excellent – am on 3rd listen now. How lucky we are to have new music from any band we loved – especially one from our youth ;-)
The moment the phrase ‘real music’ was reeled out this discussion should’ve been shut down. There seems to be a significant amount of conflation here between the rights and wrongs of the current chart rules, and how ‘music was much better in my day’.
It’s almost like people have chosen to forget that terrible commercial music sold in its undeserving millions long before rap was a twinkle in Sylvia Robinson’s eye (I know I know, the Fatback Band were technically first). Do we all need reminding that the 60 / 70s / 80s / 90s (pick the decade you were young in) were not utopian decades where every song released was a stone cold classic. Chart position has never been a measure of artistic quality, which itself is subjective. This isn’t news but it feels like it’s been forgotten by some in this debate.
In my late teens (the late 1980s) the charts were often a joke, filled with awful SAW productions, Curiosity Killed the Cat, Bros, Debbie Gibson, Johnny Hates Jazz… I shudder to continue. It wasn’t all Prince, TFF, Depeche Mode or New Order. Meanwhile, a golden age of Hip Hop was emerging. Public Enemy, De La Soul, A Tribe Called Quest, Roxanne Shante, NWA, Ice Cube, Ice T, Digital Underground. If anyone seriously wants to tell me that ‘Too Many Broken Hearts’ is a better record than ‘Fight the Power’ because the latter is a rap record, then I suggest it’s never too late to trade in your cloth ears for ones that work.
I was completely invested in the new TFF album (I have all formats, thanks Paul!). I love the new album and I’m glad it sold in, for what in 2022 is, significant numbers. But do I care it’s not #1, not in the slightest. Most of the music I buy fails to trouble the charts. That’s not why I buy it.
And that’s the charts for you, a hotchpotch of the good, the bad and the Ed Sheeran. So it is now, so it has always been.
I totally agree with you on S/A/W, but I know Curiosity and JHJ have their fans here and I’d also say they’re not too far removed stylistically from TFF’s grown-up style… not as ambitious, though.
A good point. What’s been fascinating about watching the Top of the Pops repeats on BBC4 over the last few years from the early seventies to the mid nineties currently is the fact that you get the unexpurgated, warts and all picture of each period – and there’s an awful lot of rubbish and a great many of the hairiest of musical warts. It’s the real uncurated history of popular music and a lot of it stinks. The great stuff connects with us and survives of course, but it’s in the minority mostly. Based on the TOTP repeats so far, I think the last mostly interesting period was the first half of the 80s – even a lot of the obscure, forgotten stuff was interesting, with some genuinely bonkers stuff getting in the charts. The last half of the 80s, with the gangrenous spread of SAW etc. was mostly woeful (obviously some great stuff but the ratio was lower). I suppose you need a solid bed of manure to allow a few roses to grow.
Interestingly as you say this was when hip hop was really coming into its own. Those early Public Enemy albums were phenomenal. Chuck D still a brilliant, hyper-intelligent, passionate and eloquent activist – I saw him interviewed recently and met him. I think hip hop in many respects took the political baton from the Dylans of music and ran with it – a lot of white guitar music then proceeded to just examine its own navel for ideas.
Agree with this completely.
Music today is no better or worse than any other era (genres come and go in and out of fashion just like always), it’s just not aimed at oldies like us. It’s the natural order of popular music and it should always be scaring the older generations who suddenly feel disconnected from what’s “cool”. Music we like should be looked down on by younger generations. Happened to us, our parents and their parents.
And the debate about hip hop/rap below is beyond embarrassing. It’s Grandpa Simpson shouting at clouds meme in message board form.
Totally agree with this. I loved indie music and hip hop in the 1980s but the majority of stuff in the charts was rubbish from my viewpoint. I became disinterested in rap in the 1990s and UK music generally as americana came on the scene. Now I will buy whatever I think sounds interesting whatever genre. If you close your mind to a particular genre then you are missing out on some great music.
Wow, isn’t it funny that we sound like our fathers and grand-fathers. Rock & Roll is rubbish it’ll never take over Jazz. The Beatles will never replace Elvis, Boo Bob Dylan for going electric, Synthesiser music isn’t real music and now lets diss Rap music because we don’t like it.
I’ve no problem with rap/hiphop ( as an early teen I was obsessed with Electro/Street Sounds etc) but the current popular British stuff is garbage. I endured a few British tracks on Radio 1 today and it was souless, unimaginative bilge. I’m not anti hiphop, I just have taste in music. I agree that streaming should be separated from genuine sales. The Billie Martin interview highlighted that who gets on playlists and hence streams is a big fix between streaming platforms and music publishers. I know it was similar in the past when radio play was often down to greasing a radio producer’s palm but at least sales and “play” were kept apart.
In full agreement with Tom here. I loved those Streetsounds albums in the 1980s. Hip-hop was innovative fresh and exciting. And very often fun, a quality seemingly missing from the stuff around now. Grandmaster Flash, KRS One/BDP, Eric B & Rakim, Biz Markie, Spoonie G, Captain Rock, Roxanne Shante. Kool Moe Dee, Marley Marl, the Def Jam greats. At some time in the 1990s it decided to take itself far too seriously and dissapeared up its own backside, never to return.
Liastened to a Central Cee track ‘Obsessed with You’ to see what it’s all about. Oh dear me. Hideous derivative rubbish with all the same old cliches. Spitting out inane puerile lyrics with no funk nor rythym. Of course there’s a dose of mysoginy. Oh, and he shook his hand about in an angry manner in the video to show how, well ‘angry’ he was, whilst flashing his big wad of cash. Doesn’t he know that contactless payment is the modern way? My god, he doesn’t even wear a seat belt, when his girl is driving him to the local shop!!! To be honest, he comes across as a bit of a dick.
Leave it to the Americans. At least they’re the real deal. The Brits are a pale, literally so in Central Cee’s case, immitation.
By the way, I’ve never really been a Tears For Fears fan, but I heard No Small Thing on the radio yesterday. Brilliant song. Listened to other tracks. It sounds like a really excellent album.
Garbage to YOU.
Everyone is entitled to their own taste in music. people are allowed to like different types of music and also to disagree, but calling it ‘garbage’ isn’t fair. I’m not a big TFT fan tbh, but I wouldn’t come on here calling it garbage (nor am I a Central Cee fan either)… everyone just needs to calm down a bit.
Rap is not music. It is talking over music [mostly other people’s I would say]. That said, it doesn’t mean it cannot be art. It has piggy backed/cuckoo’d into ‘music’ because that is cooler than calling it poetry.
Much as most modern pop is homogenised, so is rap. You can tell your Run DMC’s from Salt N Pepa and Public Enemy – because they have character.
Rap is music – it has rhythm.
You’re sounding quite old here Stephen – can’t you just hear your parents whispering in your ear? lol.
Just one observation on the Central Cee thing – the product was very cheap. Apparently CD was only £3 at one point (still only £5 at moment).
Cassettes were manufactured in several different colours, were also cheap, and lots of media was bundled with hoodies, tshirts etc.
Looks like his marketing were just a bit sharper…
I enjoy all music genres except that huge modern one called Rap/Hip-hop etc..(there are so many sub-genre’s of it that are beyond my comprehension).I genuinely find it depressing and demoralising that a TFF LP that they clearly put real sweat and artistic idealism into is commercially outgunned by another hideous generic rap record by someone I have literally never heard off. Stan,Where is the Love?,and Gangster’s Paradise are literally the ONLY rap songs I have ever been able to like.These threesongs have something in them that even rap-loathers like me can actually appreciate.Sadly I am still waiting for a 4rd rap song to arrive that my ears can tolerate.There is literally nothing worse for my happy well-being than having to listen to this awful rap-stuff that noise-pollutes our society.
I am also mystified by how streaming can contribute to a chart position.I am so old-school I still find it hard to comprehend how what folk listen to online on some subscription site classifies as a sale.They have not bought anything when paying some monthly fee to some huge tech firm access music catalogues.The Christmas charts in December kind of show you in stark terms how utterly ridiculous the contruction of these modern charts are.
Rap and Hip-Hop is almost 50 years old.
So you enjoy all genres, including serialism, avant-jazz, grindcore, extreme metal, & noise but you can only find 3 songs in the vast range of musical styles encompassed by hip hop that you can tolerate?
I accept Eminem’s brilliant Stan, but if your only other worthy rap songs comprise Black Eyed Peas and Coolio I would suggest you haven’t been looking hard enough. At least you didn’t put forward Puff Daddy I suppose (shudder)
Is that the sound of Tupac and MC Doom turning in their graves I hear.
Wonder if the Government definition of noise pollution includes rap – maybe you could lobby your MP to get it included.
When people say they like all types of music I do wonder if that includes sea shanties and polka! Diversity is good though
The 4th (not 4rd) may be “The Message” by Grandmaster Flash. That one even inspired Phil Collins’ performance on the Genesis song “Mama”! But of course that’s very early rap.
Blimey, physical sales of just over 24,000 in week 1 for TFF. I knew physical sales were down from vinyl’s glory days but I didn’t realise that they were that far down. I must buy more to compensate!
The charts (album and single) have always been meaningless as actual data. They’ve always been manipulated via multiple formats, bribes, inflated or cherry-picked sales figures. Sure, people pay attention to them, so they are a marketing tool. In all honesty, there’s a case to be made for them currently being more meaningful now than at any previous time.
The thing is, at least physical and streaming charts are based on actual data. The combined, ‘main’ chart has this intervention where streams are converted into sales which really is just nonsense. I know the UK album chart is an institution, but then so was Top of the Pops and popping into Woolworths to buy a 7″ single and they didn’t survive. Now that music ‘consumption’ is different depending on the artist or the demographics of the audience the ‘main’ chart is a total fudge.
Couldn’t put it better Paul.
How tragic for real music that rap garbage is continuing to sell. I can’t understand how people still buy this repetitive rubbish.
I tend to listen to a lot of old skool rap artists like Public Enemy and Run DMC but agree the modern UK take on the genre is utter tripe. It pretty much sums up the UK music scene when the number one slot goes to a poor man’s Vanilla Ice hell he isn’t even as catchy as Snow!
That would be an interesting debate. What is real music ? Sixty years ago, The Stones were considered as garbage music by parents and authorities. Look what happened to them.
Generally speaking, hip-hop is as legitimate as any kind of music. It’s been around for four decades, so it’s not just a trend, it’s here to stay. Whether you like it or not is another matter.
Yes they got worse!!
Rap is very much real music, and one of the genres that has most changed and evolved since emerging in the early 80s. I just spent a great long car drive listening to the Smithsonian Anthology of Hip-Hop and Rap (https://folkways.si.edu/smithsonian-anthology-of-hip-hop-and-rap-intl) and I would recommend it if you want to get a sense of just how diverse and musically brilliant the genre is.
And that set just covers the US scene, the UK variations really add a lot to the big picture.
Rap garbage? I’m old enough to remember my dad calling the Sex Pistols garbage, I work with a lot of under 25s, most of them into music they have inherited from their parents love of music, and most of them also into rap, not my cup of tea, but I think if I was 18 & not 54 I’d love it.
Steady mate. Rap is arguably the biggest, most vital new genre of recent times. Some would argue the last new genre as popular music just carries on consuming itself with ever diminishing creative returns.
Kendrick Lamar’s ‘To Pimp a Butterfly’ is possibly the greatest album of the 21st century thus far IMHO, and he received the Pulitzer Prize for his lyrics and comparisons to Dylan if you want evidence of creative respect – still being intensely political and addressing mental health issues, when a lot of other artists just navel-gaze. The Super Bowl half time show with Dr Dre’s posse was also magnificent, far better than the turgid ones of recent years.
I would say it’s ‘real music’ – whatever the hell that means.
“To Pimp A Butterfly” is a great album but Lamar is no Dylan. For every Lamar there are ridiculously named artists like Lil Toenail, Mr. Cheeks, Lil poopy and our own Tinie Temph, there are much, much worse but I don’t know if saying them would get me banned*.
So many rap artists require dancers still booty shaking to get their music over, in any other walk of life they would be cancelled. Of course it is real music but with so much out right rubbish in the genre getting to the good stuff is hard work. Early rap is still the best, Public Enemy and NWA had much to say but to site the Super Bowl show as magnificent brings your judgement into doubt. A 46yr old 50 Cent weezing his way through a rap upside down (I know the video, still no excuse) was laughable and so was the lack of instruments and reliance on dancers still booty shaking.
Rap is tired and lost its way it cannot be justified by a few excellent artists. We need something new.
All genres are absolute crap….. if you listen to selective proponents of that Genre.
I have a visceral hatred of Metal and Rap….. and house and drum’n’bass etc. etc. BUT, when you get someone in any genre who is at the top of their game, the cream of the crop. The ones who are operating at a level above everyone else then my rage-meter drops to acceptable levels. The clever ones just do it so much better than the wannabees.
The problem is with rap being the dominant force one gets to hear a lot of sub-standard efforts. 10 minutes of Radio One will be painful as it would have been for me in 1983 if I had been forced to listen to 10 minutes of …. picks random not very good or succesful pop group…. instead of what we heard if we listened to it non-stop. Good, good, great, good, poor (ignore), good, poor, great and so on.
I am mostly Pop, Folk and a bit of Prog, but could name dozens of piles of crap from each genre I profess to love.
Personally I don’t get rap, it’s not meant for me. I can understand why people consume it as many genres are born out of a feeling of defeat, anger or hopelessness rather than comfort and hope. Only the best can turn that anger into real poetry, the modern equivalent of the raging Style Council at their very best.
We all have our favs and our dislikes, and I actually agree with your view of modern day rap, but each to his own I say. For me, the real problem with rap, grime or whatever is, as someone has already pointed out, it’s been around for FOUR decades and has gone stale. No other mainstream popular genre seemed to last THAT long before being replaced, surpassed or morphing into something else. We desperately need something new and fresh to fire up the popular consciousness; a new Punk, Synth, or Brit Pop to enthuse about. Please let it happen soon, I’m not getting any younger!
Music is a sacred weapon . . . . and one person’s coldplay is another person’s rachmaninov.
I think perhaps the proliferation of what might be termed “bedroom artists” has contributed to the belief that some music is not as good/worthwhile/artistic/something as another.
I don’t need the charts to tell me that I like The Nightwatchman, or Dream Theater, or Jimi Hendrix! .. . not that any of them will grace the charts with their next “release” anyway.
The annual SDE chart …. “top 10 boxsets of the year*” . . . that would rocket to #1 in the “best chart of the year” chart*
*No sales or streaming data taken into account in this chart
probably for the same reason people buy numerous repetitive re-releases of albums by the likes of Bowie/Stones/insert generic white rock band its because they like it. theres a lot of content on this site hat doesnt excite me however i dont dismiss an entire genre by being narrow minded.
Spare a thought for the mighty Half Man Half Biscuit – No 10 on the sales chart, knocked down to No 37 after the streaming points are added!
Another classic with brilliant song titles and lyrics
there’s a new HMHB??? Lack of a complete list of uk releases every week means that so much – which would be of interest – slips through when i’m being bombarded by 100+ tv channels 100+ net radio stations fan sites, e-mails etcetcetc without leaving my chair
The 20th anniversary reissue of the Coral’s debut album was released yesterday. The Blood Records zoetrope picture disc edition has been delayed 2 weeks. Gotan email from them day before release. Recordstore have an exclusive blue vinyl edition with a signed print. My order is still showing “pending” and their website is now showing “7-10 days despatch” when you look on their website, which presumably means they never received their blue vinyl edition in time for the release date. Pure guesswork on my part – as has been par for the course with Recordstore for a while now, they do not communicate with purchasers when there has been a delay or other issue. In the old days they would always drop you an email even if a release was one day late. Not too worry, The Coral blue vinyl has been available to pre-order for 6 months and they still can’t get it out in time for the release date.
The charts are being killed by old farts multi-buying late-career landfill like McCartney III, The Tipping Point or whatever vapid junk Duran Duran are flogging this decade.
What matters is a song’s listenability, NOT the number of different coloured vinyl versions 55-year-old Mark from Teesside is prepared to shell out for because his jaded old ears need a bit of format-viagra to help relive the glory days.
That is why streaming matters; it’s about song-power. There’s no online version of dodgy “couldn’t give a toss” signatures, picture discs, or chart return shops stacked full of freebies.
If shipped units mattered “Be Here Now” would be a masterpiece.
The kids know best, as we did when we were their age.
No one is saying streaming doesn’t ‘matter’. What I’m saying is streaming aren’t sales and trying to ‘convert’ them into sales to desperately maintain the good old-fashioned ‘main’ album chart doesn’t work. By the way, you know lots of people who read this site like Duran Duran (and so do I) so your comment is borderline trolling, to be honest.
Whilst I would take issue with Mark’s provocative tone, he has hit upon a valid point – namely the ‘multi-buying’ by a small number of individuals to skew chart placings. Sure, selling variants has always been a way to ‘encourage’ sales, but recently it’s taken on a whole new level – I lost count of how many versions there were of the latest Macca and ABBA releases, for example.
One way to account for this I imagine would be to only allow for chart purposes ONE version of the album in any given format (ie CD, SACD, HFPA, cassette, black vinyl). I seem to recall the singles chart did this in the 80s to clamp down on labels releasing umpty-thrumpty pic discs/remixes etc.
But then I think – are the charts actually that important to the labels to actually warrant the time policing this sort of selling practice?
FairPlay – each to their own. You could perhaps point this out to Mark Stuart above dismissing an entire genre in rap – arguably the most important new genre of the last forty years.
Yes, Central Cee isn’t really my thing, but you are on dodgy ground dismissing an entire genre.
I think this is a really interesting line of conversation. Personally I find most rap music very repetitive especially the actual rapping which seems to me to have only two speeds, three at best and the lyrical content very poor most of the time when it should be its strength. The production and/or the guest singer more often or not the highlight. It is the music of youth culture though and therefore is reflected in the charts. The charts are utterly meaningless now and are just a small part of marketing an artist. There was too much heavy metal when I was a teenager and I listened to a lot then but as with rap (although both have notable exceptions) I lost interest as I got older.
The main point of this thread to me is the remark Paul made about possible trolling. I have left many negative comments on this site, some I am really happy with and some not so. I have little time for a lot of 80’s chart music, Duran Duran especially, but it is a clear mainstay of the site and Paul especially and it should be respected as so. I don’t think Mark was trying to upset anyone and has been an invaluable member of these forums but as I have done in the past I think he went a little too far this time. So its about trying to have a meaningful conversation that provokes a thread without offending anyone, a line it is very hard to walk.
As with Black rights, LGBTQ, Brexit, immigration etc finding a way to converse without offence been taken is difficult, I could be banned for just mentioning the subjects and often contribute to sites like these because the starting point is after all only music. ONLY MUSIC! I look at my comment and realise its very preachy and pompous but I will post it anyway. Please be nice to me, I will try harder.
Thanks Tim. I appreciate your thoughts and honesty in your comments.
Another old fart here!
The charts are so different now because the way most people digest music now is so different.
Why should younger acts/people have a lesser voice in the charts because they don’t consume things the way we did in the 80s?
The pop charts,especially the singles one,have always represented what the youth were listening to so the streaming “sales” should be weighted as such.
The album charts are slightly different because youngsters nowadays don’t tend to listen to a complete album and certainly most don’t purchase a physical copy.Therefore to “fairly” represent the youth streaming sales are weighted accordingly.
I have no issue with this.If I want to know who sold the most physical copies I know where to look.
As for the DD comment.I also think their recent stuff has been rubbish but that also applies to other 80s acts.I saw Aha on their last tour and the vocals were largely awful.If you cannot hit the notes or sustain them it’s probably best not to sing that song.When it applies to many songs it’s probably best to stop performing live.Thankfully I managed to see them in the 80s and have fond memories of those shows but there is no point in keeping on the rose tinted glasses because you just end up deluding yourself.Many bands we loved in the 80s haven’t maintained that excellence.Nothing wrong with saying that and it certainly isn’t trolling,just a valid opinion of what you hear/see in 2022.
I’m sorry, but saying Duran Duran is “vapid junk” is not relevant to the chart discussion. You don’t write that without knowing you are going to piss off quite a few SDE readers and I’m not happy with debate that is primarily designed to annoy others. Many of us here refer to ourselves deprecatingly as “old farts” but I notice Mark uses the term in the third person, so in an attacking sense. Just because it’s his opinion it doesn’t mean it’s valid to dig it out and air it within the context of this discussion and knowing who the SDE audience are.
Is it possible to stream a song on a constant loop on multiple devices and platforms for every minute of the week, that would rack up some nice data. I am sure there are ‘bots’ at play somewhere in the game, especially as only 30 seconds is needed to count as a stream?
I paid £10.99 for the new TFF album and granted it was signed but the collectability wasn’t the concern more the quality of the song writing that I’d heard. To assume an artist is of more merit just because they are younger is utter cobblers. By that token a few years ago you’d have been advocating Dappy over Leonard Cohen, get a grip sir.
if streaming was available in 1997, I am sure the ‘kids’ would have been streaming “Be Here Now” til the cows came home.
If any two phrases suggested you are on the wrong site it’s “What matters is a song’s listenability” and “The kids know best”. I agree, borderline trolling.
The greatest hits ‘clog’ up because most CD’s are bought in the ever shrinking supermarket area? And supermarkets are there to sell units. Greatest Hits by musicians sell, not some autotune zombie clone . Even the tampering by the OCC cannot get around that fact.
The chart should be by units of a product sold. Simple. Streaming is so open to manipulation it’s unreal [Christmas?] let it have it’s own chart but it should not be the official one.
‘Listenability’ ummm, interesting description. So something that burbles along nicely in the background would qualify there. Sounds like a formula for pretty bland music to me.
Many great albums may have initially scored fairly low on general ‘listenability’ because they required some time, and yes, effort on the part of the listener.
Maybe ‘the kids’ always ‘know best’ but it feels like you are viewing musical history as some form of continuum where nothing really changes in terms of how people interact with music, where actually it’s pretty much all changed. The Billy Ray Martin interview nailed the whole concept of record companies becoming essentially licensing agents selling baked beans or whatever. Yes it was always an industry but with a space to rebel and break the formula. Outside of the Bandcamp world that’s much less the case now.
Although i m an old fart myself ,i have to agree.
Rude.
Hi Mark,
It’s not the case of ‘old farts’ buying multiple products from old acts. The whole industry is at it, and youngsters are also happy to buy multiple variants of the same album. In reality the music marketing machine has sold multiple versions and formats for decades, so things haven’t really changed much.
Streaming isn’t really about ‘song power’, it’s about convenience and making money for the corporations. The streaming provider will still push the consumer to the mainstream / popular acts; much as top of the pops and radio 1 used to when we were kids.
I was never an Oasis fan, whilst I still liked some of the songs. But I do remember Be Here Now being proclaimed as a masterpiece by Q magazine in its five star review. Anything to keep the kids believing they need to buy this album. And buy it they did, certainly at the start of its release. It’s only when people listened to it, did they release it wasn’t all that good.
Kids may think they know best, but generally kids don’t care much about anything, apart from having fun, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Anyway, each to their own, as is always the way!
Algorithms (modern) vs. radio airplay (my day).
Bar the modifying affect of what your elder siblings or best mate was playing it was mostly what came through the air that made your choices. So playlists and TotP. That has been replaced by algorithms which are appalling as they are designed to give you more of the same as in politics.
Algorithms aren’t going to play OMD, then Captain Beaky, then The Nolans then Culture Club, then The Jam, then The Steve Miller Band. It’s too narrow a system.
I’m trying to figure out if you’re taking the piss with this post. If so, good on you. If not, calling The Tipping Point “late career landfill” and “vapid junk” is ridiculous. It’s received universal praise.
I agree with you completely that streaming matters. However, if anyone has cornered the market on “vapid junk” it is streaming. Don’t get me wrong – I’ve paid Spotify and Apple far more money for subscriptions than I want to think about it, but streaming charts are full of the audio equivalent of crack cocaine that folks will play incessantly until they fill their pipe for the next one. “Listenability” does not mean a song is any good, that it has any substance, or that anyone will remember it in 10 years – just that it’s hot today, perhaps forgotten tomorrow.
I’m no fan of the trend of releasing LPs in every color of the rainbow and have no understanding of the need to own every color of an album – but to each his own. As Paul says, however, 6000 copies of Central Cee’s approximately 30000 sales were fricking cassettes! How’s that any different than multi-buying 17 copies of McCartney III?
Anyway, I’ve wasted too many words on what was a stupid post to begin with.
Hoped they would make no. 1.
I noted that the discounted vinyl from The Sound of Vinyl was not available to buy from Ireland … presumably because it would not count for the UK charts!
I ordered the green vinyl through recordshop.uk from Greece before the discount. Because it had not been dispatched, they refund me the discount.
Had there been more copies of the Audio Blueray, I know for a fact that the Tears For Fears sales figures would have been at least one digit higher … :)
Yeah! I luckily ordered way before the “pre-sale” even ended, and literally an hour or two later could not order another for a friend. What is it, 500 or something? SO great it exists but if these editions sell out so often why the heck aren’t the pressing numbers higher?!?
Because it was a limited edition that was made possible because of SDE and Paul. Stop complaining and be grateful that you were able to order a copy.
This isn’t actually accurate. It was limited to 2000 and available to order for more or less exactly 24 hours, not “an hour or two”.
In my case, absolutely not meant as a criticism or a complaint! On the contrary – I think it’s a super idea! But I want to ‘raise awareness’ (if that’s the term), that the market is larger than Paul might have thought. And that I’m one of the people ready for the next one.
It’s clear the market is larger, so I guess we’ve learnt something. However it was by no means obvious. We probably sold more blu-rays than TFF sold CDs in the week of release of their last album.
The thing is, that 2000 copies of the blu-ray-A sold in lightening-quick time and could have sold more – yet that format (and DVD-A) is to a great extent being ignored and, from the article above, that “6,000 cassettes” sold in a week from ONE artist which I hope that readers of this site that decry the format, take at least some notice of. And no, I haven’t bought a cassette in the last 20-odd years at least (the last probably a ZTT cassette as getting the contents on any other format at the time wasn’t possible).
OK, here’s my view on the unlikely Tears For Fears vs Central Cee debate, which is a microcosm of a larger issue. Of course, I was rooting for Tears For Fears, as I know the back story of how the album came about, and also they could have equalled brief co-writers Bastille who did score a No.1 album only two weeks ago. At the same time, Central Cee has a backstory, and I think the more new albums ‘selling’ the better for UK music in general. One surprise is 6,000 Central Cee cassettes! The albums chart is gradually turning into a Greatest Hits of All Time chart, with Queen, ABBA, Elton permanent fixtures simply because, law of averages, they will average a few 1000 casual purchases per week, and that’s now ‘base level’ for making the Top 50. I’d actually be in favour of making a heritage chart for any release over, say, five years old, including reissues. Sure, there’d be grey areas…. rarities albums etc. But that way new artists could at least get a fair shot at exposure and recognition beyond Spotify plays. The streaming issue is an existential threat. I actually like UK Tap, inc Central Cee, Dave, D-Block…. they’ve overthrown manufactured pop, but I listen on my iPhone one track at a time, like a teenager would. Tears For Fears, I bought (SDE exclusive) and listened in one go.
My recommendation would be for the Official Charts Company to scrap the official top 40 album chart. It really is pointless these days. Have a streaming album chart and a physical album chart and that’s it. The way they convert streams into sales is a joke – streams are not, and will never be, ‘sales’ – so they should not be counted as such. Streaming is how many young people listen to music, which is fine, and if you want to see what’s popular you look at the streaming chart. If you want to see what people are actually buying, e.g sales, then you look at the physical chart. The current ‘main’ chart is now some kind of Brundlefly hybrid which is horrible. Like the *actual* Brundlefly someone needs to put a gun to the ‘main’ album chart’s head and pull the trigger.
Agreed Paul, that would be a much better solution, the current set up doesn’t really satisfy anyone. I believe in the US the singles chart always includes an airplay element, but presumably albums didn’t as there was never any way of hearing it without buying it… or borrowing it, and this current system seems rather like estimating how many people listens to their friends copy!
That sounds like an idea so sensible it will never happen. But I’m sincerely hoping that gun finds a different head in the world, and soon.
Totally agree with you,Paul
Who decides anyway how many streams equals a sale? It’s a totally arbitrary construct, plucked out of the air to try to justify a ludicrous system. I certainly know that it’s not proportional to the income an artist receives for each, as they get bugger all for a stream. Therefore it’s only fair that a stream should contribute bugger all to the chart.
The whole thing’s a farce.
I agree. I think it’s literally meaningless. Even a “No 1” album is meaningless because you know it’s all multiple formats ( ie cassettes ) that no one one will ever play. Physical means someone has actually gone to the trouble of specifically ordering a product – AKA putting money in the artists pocket rather than streaming where the artist gets fuck all while the listener boils their kettle in the morning.
I know things were’nt perfect before ( stores like Virgin & Our Price ( Over priced ) charging a premium but at least things were more exciting then, you had to leave your house & make an effort to buy something that meant something.
Now I never look at the chart unless an artist I love is releasing something & I don’t think the general public give half a f**k either from the people I talk to either BUT, it used to!!!
A physical sale chart will give a good clue to an artist’s true fan level.
Couldn’t agree more. Streaming charts and physical charts should be completely separate. End of.
Having a No.1 album isn’t meaningless as it increases the likelihood of being covered by the press, This Morning and BBC breakfast as a filler at the end of the program etc etc etc
The thing with cassette ‘sales’ is that they are usually bundled with purchases of the CD and “autographed” art card. Sometimes the chart is determined by who sold the most autographs. The Avril Lavigne album hit number 3 this week and was surely helped by the fact that if you wanted a signed copy it was bundled as a signed art card, CD and three different coloured cassettes resulting in 4 purchases of the album when in most cases it was only the autograph that the punter wanted – at present 100s of these artcards are listed on ebay for upwards of £30+. The chart is not fit for purpose for many reasons……
I think the charts are meaningless and a waste of time. If they based it on physical sales only, the usual suspects (Rumours, Dark Side of the Moon, etc.) would never be out of the Top 10.
Huh? Dark Side of the Moon from Pink Floyd and Rumours? It hasn’t been in the top 10 in years…. You mean all time top ten. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums
RTA. I don’t mean all time top ten.
Rumours is at #21, DSOTM at #42 on the physical sales chart this week – https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/physical-albums-chart/
SDE must be responsible for a major chunk of those 24,462 Tears For Fears sales. Amazon UK put the signed cd back on sale on Thursday, presumably as part of the attempt to hit number 1, so I finally got a signed item. I ended up with five physical T F F items, so I can imagine that there’s less than 10,000 people buying all the products.
The gaming of the system – cassettes being a kooky “thing” again, despite no one owning a tape deck, shows how farcical it all is. You may as well allow any merch by an artist featuring an image of their new album count as a record sale.
A chart which excludes multiple purchases from the same buyer would also be a lot fairer on smaller acts who don’t have the resources to release 3/4/10 versions of the same album.
Good point, I ended up with four copies and I am not a TFF collector, so it does seem a shame if there are less than 10k people who are interested in what is, a fine album.
The additional point I wanted to make is that I bought four different formats because they were interesting versions in their own right and I actually wanted them. I am a major Duran fan but though I bought 721 versions (or summat) of Future Past, I didn’t feel they were good value for money or that I really wanted them, bar extending a 40 year collection. Congrats to TFF/Concord for that.