NewsRoger Waters updates Pink Floyd fans on the ‘Animals’ box set
Waters compromises while sticking the knife in
In a typically frank post, Roger Waters has revealed what has held up the planned reissue of Pink Floyd‘s 1977 album Animals and seems to indicate that the issue is resolved, albeit fans will be concerned that the very act of publishing this post online – and airing some of this inter-band ‘dirty laundry’ in public – could actually threaten the reissue again.
The good news is that Waters confirms once more that “there are new James Guthrie Stereo and 5.1 mixes” of Animals but then explains that “these mixes have languished unreleased because of a dispute over some sleeve notes that Mark Blake has written for this new release”.
According to Waters, David Gilmour vetoed the inclusion of the notes, saying “He does not dispute the veracity of the history described in Mark’s notes, but he wants that history to remain secret”.
Roger then goes on to say the following: “This is a small part of an ongoing campaign by the Gilmour/Samson camp to claim more credit for Dave on the work he did in Pink Floyd, 1967-1985, than is his due. Yes he was, and is, a jolly good guitarist and singer. But, he has for the last 35 years told a lot of whopping porky pies about who did what in Pink Floyd when I was still in charge. There’s a lot of ‘we did this’ and ‘we did that’, and ‘I did this’ and ‘I did that’.”
The significant element in all this is that Roger Waters states that he is “agreeing to the release of the new Animals remix, with the sleeve notes removed… Sorry, Mark Blake.” However Waters has made the complete sleeve notes available on his site. They don’t seem particularly controversial, albeit “Roger” gets name-checked a fair amount!
Waters also says he is writing his memoirs and includes a preview where he highlights – and then disputes – an account of how the cash register tape loops on ‘Money’ were created. This account was given by David Gilmour to Rolling Stone journalist David Fricke, in 1982. Waters literally says Gilmour has “no fucking idea what he’s talking about”. Eek.
You can read the whole post on Roger‘s website. The video above is simply a filmed summary of the same points being made. At the end of the video is a still that appears to show a box set sticker, indicating a package which includes vinyl LP, CD, DVD and blu-ray, with all formats including the new James Guthrie stereo mixes and the DVD and blu-ray including the 5.1 surround mixes. No new or archive material is included and the label is headed ‘2018 Remix’.
What do you make of all this? Roger left the band in the early 1980s and did try to stop the others using the Pink Floyd name, after all? However, he has since admitted that was wrong to do that. Assuming Waters’ account of why Animals has been delayed is accurate, is David Gilmour being unnecessarily petty? And is it fair for him to deny Waters access to Pink Floyd channels when Waters was clearly a major contributor to the success of the band and that band is now defined by its back catalogue. On the other hand, what does Waters think he’s going to achieve with all this sniping, particularly towards Gilmour’s wife Polly Samson?
It’s clearly complicated, but go with your gut feeling and give your feedback via the simple SDE poll, below! We will keep you informed of any official news regarding an Animals reissue.
SDE Poll
How do you view this Waters v Gilmour situation?
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It’s deeply saddening to see ageing multi-millionaires bickering about who made a 5 second tape loop 50 years ago whilst the world is going to hell in a handcart. It shows to some extent how massive fame, wealth and success can distort a person’s perspective of what’s important in life.
Also, most Floyd fans already know that Roger was the creative heart of Pink Floyd, and that the two albums they released after he left weren’t really true ‘Floyd’. But rather than letting his legacy be as that creative heart of Floyd, what he’s done in the past 35 years has kind of made his legacy veer towards being the bitter one that left Floyd and never got over it …
These are grown geriatric men arguing endlessly over past grievances which in typical alpha male/british fashion were never fully addressed.
These artists are millionnaires now and if they are worried about what musical legacy they’ll leave,they should be humble enough to let the music speak fot itself !!
Quit the squabbling,get the mixes out,take the money and get on with what is left of your lives !!
Sheeshh…
Absolutely! If I was the mean schoolmaster in The Wall I’d bend them both over the desk & cane their ar..s & tell them exactly that ;-)
..will be another worthless release if it does not include a PROFESSIONALLY RESTORED version of the 1977 Oakland CA concert, best thig ALL bands can do for their own historical preservation & credit, is to restore their concerts from their heyday, specially in cases like this one where apparently no soundboards were recorded during the albums tour, worse hystorical mistake ever…!! ..so if the Oakland concert is the best sonding one, it needs to be officially & professionally restored and officially published to eliminate all the TONS of bad sounding worthless boots out there..!! ..in my case I do not spend a single penny on ANY release unless it´s got an unreleased / restored concert from the specific albums tour..!!
Who the hell is gilmour ? Brought in by the band after Syd was removed .
if anyone should be calling the shots at Pink Floyd.com it should be nick mason .
a band member since day one .. where’s your stones nick ?
there is no such thing as a waterless Floyd . The weak material after waters left the band , should never have had the Pink Floyd name. Waters was the creative genius since syd was removed . There is no question. Shine on roger you’re the man and have been since the third album More . I’m not saying that Dave’s guitar Wasn’t a intricate part of the music , it was , the guitar solo in comfortably numb is as recognizable as the guitar solo in hotel California . All concepts , writing were waters . I just don’t care for his politics.
you just can’t have a Pink Floyd without waters biting lyrics and gilmour’s sweet guitar.
animals is the greatest post dark side album , not really looking for a remaster as much as a 5.1 mix . The album stands as is perfectly . Steven Wilson treatment over james Guthrie on the 5.1 perhaps even a atmos mix if Steven handled it . I’m sure he would have been honored to do it .
Gilmour is the musical genius who made Roger’s crude demos into brilliant works of art. That’s who the hell Gilmour is! Have you ever heard what these songs sounded like before the rest of the band breathed life into them?
At their best it was all of them working together. I like their individual solo albums but none capture the glory of them working together. Any other debate is pointless and it’s such a shame they couldn’t put the past behind and make a few more records……
Oh boy..
It’s true Roger did make the original cash register loop, but that was only a demo and the group would re-work the loop again in the studio according to interviews and books I’ve read. Looks like ol’ Roger just confusing things.
Dave done nothing wrong, also the notes that got left out were pretty cringey in the first place.
So, first off: Will you (ENGLAND) please take Roger back? ;)
Seriously, this former and avowed “communist-cum-capitalist” (MUSICIAN) “overtly” dabbles in “American” politics, really splitting the Pink Floyd fandom here in “the states.” I hear a lot of: “Stay in your lane, Roger.”
That said: Roger was an integral part of Pink Floyd’s 1970s success and although MY default position is to ALWAYS blame Roger first when these (petty) fights break out, I feel these OLD “boys” just need to “get on with it” and RELEASE ALL THE %#^ 5.1s – NOW!!!
All of them.
Given how the original studio-albums remixed to 5.1 have been released (dispersed or even hidden) inside bloated, expensive and (in some cases) now OOP, SDE boxsets, it feels time to request that Pink Floyd focus on a genuine “surround-sound” RE campaign, while making these 5.1s more accessible, as well as affordable.
I support a standalone, 5.1 RE campaign (per album) starting from the beginning – or at least with the earliest “multis” with enough tracks capable of constructing a “surround-sound” scape for the earliest Pink Floyd albums.
Here are some ideas:
a. Consider an entire catalogue (per album library) of PF (multi/hybrid) 5.1 SACD BOOKLETS
and/or
b. the CD/5.1 BLU-RAY BOOKSETS like Marillion & of course TULL’s (very successful) CD/5.1 DVD Bookset REs.
c. or something like the YES CD/5.1 Blu-ray (stand-alone) REs featuring the Digi-book type format representing the original gatefold LP a.k.a. the mini lp format with protective, resealable plastic-sleeve.
d. and lastly the CD/5.1 Blu-ray (stand-alone) digipak with cardboard slipcase from XTC.
Regardless, PF, please just release the 5.1s and keep the packaging uniform, yeah?
Seriously consider releasing both Guthrie and Jackson 5.1 efforts (where applicable) including a NEW 2021+ RE-remixed cd/Blu 5.1 (standalone) of “AMLOR” (fix the main-vox levels and shoot for more surround-sound “discreteness,” Andy). Hey, I’m even down for an “updated” 5.1 remix of DSOTM – one more inline with Guthrie’s 2011 “WYWH” 5.1 SACD effort.
It’d all be welcomed, Pink Floyd, Inc., especially in DSD and/or “hirez,” discrete surround-sound. It’s not like there are disc-space issues or the PF a$ks could get any HIGHER (Ha!), esp. since many PF SDE boxsets contain “inferior” duplicate discs and “unneeded/unrelated” (to the music) items. Not to mention, sales are ALWAYS strong to the point of OOP issues for fans.
…and for God’s sake, Pink Floyd, allow A.P. to finally complete his original, amazing and clearly INCOMPLETE, 1973 Quad mix – as an important “historical document,” if for NO OTHER reason!
“C’mon, man…”
Still no release dates and (KARL@) “Analogue Productions” confirms “they” have NO idea IF the 5.1s (“DSOTM,” “Animals,” or “The Wall”) will EVER be available as 5.1 SACD booklets (à la “WYWH”). “DSOTM” & “ANIMALS” were formerly advertised as 5.1 SACD booklet PRE-ORDERS @“AP,” while this was only “discussed” for “The Wall” 5.1 — and only if Guthrie was able to salvage the multis and finish the 5.1 remix (for SACD) he started sometime ~September of 2015.
Shame…
Yes, bring on the surround standalone releases! Quick question: how is Parsons quad Dark Side mix incomplete?
So, unlike the “Chicago” Quad, which is simply a different mix than the 2.0 stereo presentation we know and love (and not to be confused with the Klingberg ‘03 “Chicago” 5.1 DVD-A, which is a very faithful surround mix of the original, 2.0 stereo), Alan Parsons’ Quad presentation of Pink Floyd’s 1973 “DSOTM” was “rushed by EMI,” and Alan was only able to “lay down” the “essentials” for the Quad release.
I’m listening to it NOW, it’s midnight here in L.A.
So, there are passages here through entire songs where only the essentials got “laid down” for the Quad presentation. Much percussion, bass, keys, synth, guitar overdubs and even vox/main-vox are missing!
Alan says he wanted to finish, but EMI called “time.” Alan discusses this online (check YouTube and Sound on Sound, etc…). He’s, also, not shy to discuss, especially if one attends any of his mixing-seminars (for a few thousand quid) at his BEAUTIFUL, Santa Barbara Ranch.
Get the Blu-ray and bounce between the 5.1 and 4.0! You’ll not only here the different surround mixing choices (Guthrie v. Parsons), you’ll hear that the (released) Quad is a more “stripped down” presentation – and not by design or choice!
Deemed good enough by EMI, the Quad has a more “in the drum-kit” feel (akin to the original 2.0 via headphones), imho. You’ll be able to pick out some of the missing tracks, as they present as “bleed” from other mic’d “essential tracks,” already present on the fundamental, Quad mix A.P. was piecing together from the “bottom up,” or you’ll hear nothing, as in where’s X-part that belongs HERE on top of the bass and drums?
This is partly because the band played together, LIVE, in studio sans vox. Guitar, keyboards, piano, synths, general overdubs, etc. were to be added to the Quad presentation after the drums and bass were laid down – and as was practice with Pink Floyd, the main-vox were cut separately “in the box.” All this was to be spliced together for a Quad presentation, now that the 2.0 stereo mix had already been delivered to EMI.
Alan had it all (the multi-tracks) in the can, but no time to finish his Quad vision. This was the era of cut and tape. No pro-tools! I posit that A.P.’s completed Quad would have been EPIC and changed the course of music (presentation) history. He should be allowed to finish it.
Regardless of the content, and who was responsible for it, it’s pretty disgraceful for guys in their mid-70’s to be still (still) sniping at one another in public forums.
I’d always joined in with the generally considered view that Animals was badly recorded, produced, mixed etc but with all the current fuss have tonight reappraised via decent ear buds and am happy to admit that I was totally wrong. The 2011 remaster is incredible. Leave it there lads.
The new hi-res version is apparently a clear improvement on the 2011 CD.
Wish they would work out their differences. But Waters chafes me with his attitude about his former band and its members. I’ll always prefer Gilmour’s guitar to Waters vitriolic comments.
Roger all the way for me his dad died fighting for his country which is reflected in his music if memory serves me right I’m sure Gilmore step son got done during one of these fox hunting demos or something by trying to damage the cenotaph which he paid the fine for Tells you all you need to know
Your facts are a bit scrambled. Roger Waters is the one connected to fox hunting (he avidly supports it). David Gilmour’s troubled (adopted) step son, Charlie, was convicted of hanging on a flag at the cenotaph during a protest over student fees. He admitted the crime before being arrested and issued a public apology. His defense was that he was out of his mind on both whiskey and LSD after a traumatic meeting with his biological father (who had abandoned him when he was only 5 months old). Charlie was 21 at the time. He was sentenced and served 16 months.
A few years later the Guardian did a joint interview with David and Charlie Gilmour about the experience, which is an interesting read.
Possibly the worst reasoning for an argument I have ever read. You are trying to conflate two separate things.
What has Roger’s Dad dying in the war got to do with anything, particularly when millions of others died during the same conflict.
And being a parent of kids slightly older than 21 now what parent wouldn’t end up paying a fine of some kind, that’s what parents do.
How either of these separate things “Tells you all you need to know” is quite beyond me.
Folks, ok, as far as I can tell, these are the multi channel versions currently available of the Pink Floyd albums or not ‘N/A’, are there any gaps folks can plug ?
[For those Stereo fans, I also noted if a 2 Channel Hi Res existed in the same Blu-ray/DVD release ‘+2Ch HR’]
The Piper at the Gates of Dawn – N/A
A Saucerful of Secrets – N/A
More – N/A
Ummagumma – N/A (See some on ‘Live at Pompeii’)
The Early Years – 1970; Devi-ation – Atom Heart Mother – 4 Channel 24 96 (The Early Years / Standalone)
The Early Years – 1971; Reverber-ation – Meddle – 6 Channel 24 96 (The Early Years – Hidden from Menu) +2Ch HR
The Early Years – 1971; Reverber-ation – Echoes – 4 Channel 24 (Song only – The Early Years / Standalone)
The Early Years – 1972; Obfusc-ation – Live at Pompeii – 6 Channel 24 96 (The Early Years / Standalone) +2Ch HR
Obscured by Clouds – N/A
The Dark Side Of The Moon – 4.0 Quad Mix 1973 – 4 Channel 24 96 (The Dark Side Of The Moon – Immersion Box Set) +2Ch HR ‘1973
The Dark Side Of The Moon – 5.1 Surround Mix 2003 – 6 Channel 24 96 (The Dark Side Of The Moon – Immersion Box Set)
The Dark Side of the Moon (30th Anniversary – SACD)
Wish You Were Here – 4.0 Quad Mix 1975 – 4 Channel 24 96 (Wish You Were Here – Immersion Box Set) +2Ch HR ‘1975
Wish You Were Here – 5.1 Surround Mix 2009 – 6 Channel 24 96 (Wish You Were Here – Immersion Box Set)
Wish You Were Here (2011 SACD + 2018 Reissue)
Animals – 2018 Mix released 2021 ?
The Wall – N/A
The Final Cut – N/A
The Later Years – Disc 6 – A Momentary Lapse of Reason (96Khz 24bit 6 Channel) +2Ch HR
The Later Years – Disc 7 – Delicate Sound of Thunder – Restored & remixed (Blu-ray DTS-24-96-6ch) +2Ch HR
The Later Years – Disc 6 – The Division Bell (96Khz 24bit 6 Channel) +2Ch HR
The Later Years – Disc 6 – Unreleased Material (96Khz 24bit 6 Channel) +2Ch HR
Is There Anybody Out There? The Wall Live 1980–81 – N/A
The Later Years – Disc 8 – P·U·L·S·E – Restored & re-edited (Blu-ray DTS-24-96-6ch) +2Ch HR
The Endless River – 6 Channel 24 96 (Endless River Deluxe CD+Blu-Ray) +2Ch HR
Live at Knebworth 1990 – N/A
Just for clarity Meddle was hidden/not readily accessible in the box set and absent from the standalone release
Thanks Fletch-a-sketch, I will update to remove the standalone reference. And yes, software was used to extract these so they could play from my NAS.
After all, there is nothing new under the sun; it should be great to listen to those mixes but…
Hello fellow Sheep, Pigs and Dogs.
So Roger has an autobiography to promote.
David is strumming along
Nick is gearing up for 2022.
Frankly I couldn’t give a flying pig about who spliced bits of tape or pressed a button in a certain way.
I was at the original Wall gigs in 1980 and 1981 at Earls Court.
Probably the greats gigs I’ve seen to promote what is now a classic but I thought at the time was a pile of poo interspersed with a few good songs with some ideas culled from Gilmour’s first solo to bolster a week affair. I read in Sounds at the time that it was originally intended as a triple LP titled Bricks.
Anyway to Animals
Out plunked the punks in Punk’s year zero.
These to
Wo need to be locked in a room and not let out until they agree a rapprochement.
Both should write their version of liner notes limited to a number of words.
Then publish both in the book and let the fans decide.
Get over yourselves you churlish little school boys.
We made you what you are YES US, THE LONG SUFFERRING FANS.
Carl
The original stereo mix is fab, so give us surround fans a standalone blu-ray and include both a James Guthrie and an Andy Jackson 5.1 mix! For the stereo buyers to spend more money, the band needs to include some cutting room floor material and some live recordings in whatever clarity is available. If none of those two options exist, than a new stereo mix is a hard sell for the two channel listeners.
I really enjoy both David and Roger’s solo material. I wish Dave’s About Face could get a new mix though. In that dated early ‘80s production with synthetic sounding drums & horns is a great album. I really like the new mix of A Momentary Lapse Of Reason…so here’s to wishing.
Regarding the spat, and having played in many bands, I side with Gilmour. An amicable split it was not. Every time Roger performs near me though, I travel to see his amazing shows. I wish Gilmour would’ve toured more, but I also wish Bill Bruford would’ve kept drumming at 60 years young. So, cheers to their retirements.
Looking forward to someday hearing the surround mixes of The Wall, Meddle and Obscured By Clouds. Hopefully, sooner than later!
You can hear Meddle now Highlander on The Early Years – 1971; Reverber-ation – Meddle – 2 & 6 Channel 24bit 96k Hz… you will need an computer + program to extract the audio from the blu-ray.
My favourite album by my favourite band. But Waters and Gilmour are both misguided and not very nice. Waters for his bullying, firing of Rick Wright and his simplistic pronouncements on Israel. Gilmour for being very aloof with PF fans. Nick Mason may not be the best drummer in the world, but he deserves a lot of kudos as peacemaker between these 2 children.
I was really looking forward to extra tracks and outtakes from Animals but I’m not paying a ridiculous amount for yet another remix. The Beach Boys Feel Flows boxset looks a lot more interesting.
Hmmm, such a shame isn’t it, pity Roger was so controlling in the late 70’s Floyd and that Gilmour & Wright didn’t stand up to him at the time. Roger is right though on the fact (as he said last year) that there really should be one Floyd site with links/sections to all members of Floyd to sell whatever solo projects etc all in one camp.
I think the Animals album sounds fine as it is and you cane easily find a clean original pressing. I’m more excited by outtakes and live stuff as a pose to re mixes and remasters. Both have their place but I must admit I am looking forward to ‘The Middle Years’ boxset when it arrives.
Bring it on though, if, as a musician Roger can get the ultimate mix he’s looking for then great. I mean his solo album Amused To Death is insanely well recorded and sonically perfect. Absolutely mad that there was never a 50th ‘The Wall & that the two live concerts (NY & London) that were filmed have not been released yet? Why? What a fabulous boxset that lot would make. I’d also love to own ‘Is There Anybody Out There’ Live 80/81 on the black stuff…here’s hoping :)
Waters is an as**ole, period. Always was always will be. I love his music but as a person and bandmate not so much and this display only confirms my opinion.
all these years, every time Waters talked about remixing Animals, and how this seems to be absolutely necessary and one of his top priorities, I give the record a spin to find what’s wrong with it.
I did it again this time.
Each time I get to the same conclusion: there’s nothing wrong with it.
It is beautifully played, recorded and mixed record.
I understand that quite a lot of people are excited by the new mix ; I’m not sure what they expect; but I’m pretty much sure they’re going to be sorely disappointed, having lived with the current version for so long. I can already see thousands of fan complaining that the original mix was better, that the new one is “not” Animals, and – hey – where have Rick’s keyboards parts gone??
eclipsed (2020 interview): Pink Floyd have released the “Early Years” box set, now the “Later Years”, and before that, the Immersion box sets of “Dark Side”, “Wish You Were Here” and “The Wall”. So, there’s only one thing missing now.
Nick: What is it?
The big “Animals” box.
Oh, right… Maybe we’re currently lacking the necessary enthusiasm for that. But sometime in the future, it’s possible. There certainly aren’t any concrete plans. “Animals” was, in my opinion, production-wise the weakest of all our albums. So it could really benefit from a new remastering.
I doubt James Guthrie would remove the keyboards…
If the guys bang each other’s heads in, it’s nothing new and that won’t change either. In terms of timing, this could also be a marketing gag. I was really happy about the Animals gig at Us + Them. It finally got the album into my focus. That this coincided with the release of the 2018 remix is probably no coincidence and Waters would have wished for more control. He feels Animals more than his child than the rest of Pink Floyd. I can understand that. If he hadn’t left the band …
But he has! And so it is not surprising that such weird situations keep coming up. But that’s also part of the legend. Enjoy it! You will miss it …
The 4 format album doesn’t make me happy either. Stereo and surround is actually enough. But on the other hand, they put much more bloated stuff on the market and we bought it. As long as it works, you have to be able to indulge.
Shame there is no option for both Waters and Gilmour are acting like jerks as they have done for more than 40 years. The only likeable members of the band have always been Nick Mason and especially Syd. Yeah, Syd was cool.
Yeah man!,,steak and kidney was real cool!, He inspired captain sensible so that’s a good thing,,,,,pity he turned into vegetable man; there is a absolutely amazing biography that came out about ten years ago, really well researched and tells you about his years living in the serviced apartments ( Chelsea cloister’s),,
All previous books to this that I came across Are not worth reading,imo,it’s called a very irregular head
Emotionally, I can somewhat understand where Waters is coming from. But weaponizing the fans, trying to get them angry at Gilmour / PF is just totally wrong for a self-proclaimed pacifist. That’s not how you tear down walls and build bridges.
The fact that Waters twists a Gilmour interview from 1982 around to fit his agenda says everything I need to know. He also fails to get the facts straight. Alan Parsons and Nick Mason have both talked about the creation of the “Money” loops. Why does Roger not attack them?
I’d be vetoing the liner notes on the basis of overall poor writing style. What’s more, if my name was ‘Waters’ and a writer placed an apostrophe between the ‘r’ and the ‘s’, they’d be politely shown the door.
Animals is the “underdog” (pun intended) of all the PF albums. I hope people will rediscover it. It happens to be my favorite post-Barrett album at the moment. I hope they release a live record of that tour some day (Oakland for instance).
The Oakland Waters show 4 years ago next week was one of my favorite shows of 45 years of concert-going.
The “Us and Them” Blu-ray did a nice job of capturing the feel of that tour, but it would definitely be nice to see the ’77 tour released properly. Heaven knows there are some professional sounding recordings circulating (I have one of the Oakland show playing while I type this, and it sounds like a “King Biscuit Flower Hour” level recording.
For many years, Pink Floyd has not only permitted but encouraged its fans to trade live recordings, but so far as I know no proper soundboard recordings have emerged from the 1977 tour. There is an alleged monitor mix of part of the show from Berlin, but it’s very rough quality.
Over the years, fans have attempted a lot of restoration work to clean up the audience tape of the May 9, 1977 Oakland Coliseum show, and with good reason: the basic recording is well done for an amateur capture of a stadium concert, and it’s a corker of a performance. It’s still not up to broadcast quality, but is an enjoyable listen that gives a good idea of what the tour was like. (It’s all over the net, and streamable on youtube).
Rumor has it that the band’s sound engineer ran cassette copies from the board on this tour, but if they exist they still haven’t leaked.
I wonder if the box set will be the only option to get the remix? Who needs to have the remix on CD, LP, DVD and bluray??? I would prefer the bluray only, or maybe a CD/bluray version.
I’m sure the stereo remix will be available elsewhere. I’m not expecting a CD+blu-ray though…
If the recent Delicate SoF (restored/remixed) is any indication, they will release the box and the 4 separate elements: Vinyl / cd / dvd / blu-ray and Cd+dvd+blu-ray combo, but the Waters involvement surely will affect things. …And the fact that the blu-ray is only audio.
Aside from the Division Bell debacle, Gilmour has been involved in some CD/blu-ray combos: The Endless River (mostly audio), Rattle That Lock (mostly audio) and Live at Pompeii.
Why not call it an Immersion version of Animals ?
a remix and surround sound mix. thats it ? i think they should of gone out on top with dark side of the moon. that sound/ unit died . after that it became song writers dictating the sound. look at the wall/final cut for evidence.
Precisely. The very notion of Pink Floyd without Roger Waters is ludicrous to me, frankly – which I’m certain is the source of all of his grievances ever since he left.
The fact that the albums released under the name of Pink Floyd since then are almost pitifully bland – musically and especially lyrically – rather bears this out.
Yes, Waters’ solo career is notably patchy, but both his last album and Amused To Death trounce anything released by any of them since The Final Cut. The Wall and Us + Them shows are two of the very best concerts I’ve ever seen too
I’ve been wishing for 2 things for years. Animals in 5.1 and for Roger and Dave to bury the hatchet. At least I’ll get one of those things.
Is there any point in buying this as it will surely be included in the “Middle Years” boxset?
Due to be released just after Neil Young’s 3rd archive box, no doubt.
hardy har har…
Love the music, but Roger quits, sues the others and loses. He then proceeds to attack the group in the back at every opportunity over many decades, delivers music that doesn’t sell then makes a fortune touring the Wall (good on him). The highlight of the London gigs for many was when Dave came on to play Comfortably Numb – sadly not my night. Meanwhile, David has delivered music that seems to have sold better & mainly kept out of public spats.
The owner of pinkfloyd.com is : Pink Floyd (1987) Ltd, so it will be their owners’ activities that are promoted. Does Roger really think that his antics will change their mind on this. He is set to gain most from the release of Animals as he wrote it (most of). His own website doesn’t exactly promote even old Floyd. He also knows that a warts and more warts book is more likely to sell more than a reflective tome. But constantly pointing fingers at others always comes with three fingers pointing back.
History always has great differences in how things happened and even in recent times, things aren’t agreed on.
It seems rather sad if not quite pathetic at their age to constantly be at odds. Especially when you factor in how many ordinary people are going through real world issues. I’d rather their petty squabbles were kept behind closed doors as it really puts me off buying future releases…
It only seems to be one of them who wants to publicize his beef. And apparently he hopes you will want to buy a whole book of him trashing Gilmour, too. The porky pie memoirs.
Anyone care to hazard a guess at when the Animals box will actually be announced? And how much it will cost? My guess is I will be relying on a deal alert from Paul :D
No marbles? I’m out.
(I’m sure somebody else beat me to this comment but I just had to.)
The DSOTM marbles are very nice. The other ones not so much. But a marble with a pig on it might be pretty cool.
The thing I’ve noticed over the last couple of decades about Pink Floyd’s supposed feud is that, at least in public, there’s only one member — Roger Waters — that seems to be doing the fighting.
Prior to Water’s latest statement, the reports for several years had been that Gilmour and Mason rejected the James Guthrie audio mixes, and had nothing to do with the credits or the packaging.
The core songs on Animals (“Dogs” and “Sheep”) were developed over a span of years, beginning in 1974 prior to the release of Wish You Were Here. They evolved significantly during live performance, through extended instrumental sections and improvisation by all four band members. These creative contributions are documented in bootlegs, but not reflected in the final (negotiated) writing credits.
If anyone got the short end of the stick here, it was probably Wright, who received no writing credit at all, despite his obvious melodic contributions, particularly to “Sheep.”
While this is not the place for political argument, it should at least be acknowledged that these days Waters is most broadly known to the public not for his current projects but rather for his increasingly strident statements about Israel, which (accurately or not) many view as anti-semitic. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that his former bandmates would not want the website and other media platforms they use to disseminate their work associated with controversial views that they don’t share.
This whole thing on SDE has made me go and listen to the LP. I’ve never heard it before and to be honest Pink Floyd have always bored me ,BUT this is great stuff. I might even buy a copy…
This is very sad… and stupid. Not a surround version of the album, of course but the bad mood between David and Roger. It’s time to forget the differences between the two. “Forget” the past and move on without arguing. Erase bad things from the past from their heads. And just smile and enjoy the Pink Floyd experience as a band, like old friends, remembering the good things, the great experiences shared. The rest is past, cannot be fixed after so many years. Forget them! Another thing does not make sense. Both have an age that the end is unfortunately closer every day. Very sad…
Hopefully, a SACD version will be an option in addition to the boxset. I’d be willing to bet that James Guthrie already has done the work for remixing A Saucerful Of Secrets, Obscured By Clouds, Meddle, and The Wall all in 5.1 surround sound and they are on the shelf sitting next to Animals just waiting to be released.
Well, we know already that a 5.1 of Meddle was done for the Early Years, but Waters vetoed it because Guthrie is his main man, apparently.
And again the Red-Headed Bastard Child is beaten again. How is this album the most neglected release from the most re-issued era of this band? This must dredge up very unpleasant memories for one of the members.
Pink Floyd’s social media and website(s) are not personal affairs, they are part of the marketing side of the business. Waters business with the current Pink Floyd only include his work until he left the band in mid 80’s. I’m pretty sure that the marketing department of Pink Floyd Records (or whatever the legal name it’s now) have no interest in put money (yes there’s money invested in social media) promoting Waters solo career. On the other hand, the activities of its partners (Gilmour, Mason and the Wright state) are of course shared.
Waters left the band thinking that it was an “spent force” (his words) and that there was no reason to keep it alive. Gilmour resurrected the brand against Waters wishes and made it profitable again. Waters saw an opportunity to regain position after the Live 8 reunion and proposed a tour, Gilmour declined of course. Waters have toured successfully DSTOM, The Wall and Animals (Us+Them) so the problem it’s not money/credit related but EGO. He want all the attention, he can’t stand that Polly’s book have more exposure in social media than his political rants. He’s right to be upset about that but that’s the way it is. Nothing personal, just business.
So he’s using the (good) news of the Animals remix to attack his ex-partner. He blames Gilmour of delaying the project and at the same time he claims that he just accepted that the release do not include the liner notes …So he was also delaying the project!. That’s Waters way of communicate things, to appear like a victim/hero and blame/attack anyone else.
I’ve been following Samson’s twitter/insta since she leaked the Endless River news. And to be fair, Pink floyd’s social media had only shared Gilmour’s activities related to her book (not her activities). They had a plan to make a tour promoting the book with Gilmour as a musical guest singin Leonard Cohen songs, and (more important) Syd’s songs related to the tone and stories from the book. The pandemic stopped it from happening and the Von Trapped videos started to appear including readings from the book and Gilmour singing Leonard and Syd’s songs, which of course is of interest to Pink Floyd fans, isn’t it? Of course Waters used this to attack the couple and sent his rabid fans to claim his position… and here we are.
I give my 100% support to Gilmour way of doing things right now. Waters was a crazy genious, he’s just crazy now, driven by the same demons.
I could not have said this better myself. Waters is without question driven by demons. Hopefully he will rid himself of them and repent.
To me the Pink Floyd website should be for all of Pink Floyd the band and not confined to the post-Waters world. If that includes what they are dong now then that’s fine with me- as I’d buy the stuff and still want to see the shows anyway- so why not use it to keep us all informed about all of them?
However it contains the current Dave/Polly stuff but excludes Roger’s current work (which is outstanding- for example the lock-down songs on YouTube). I can see what that’s not fair on him, or on the fans.
I’d rather not spend time watching Dave’s new stuff, as it’s miles away from the golden era ‘middle years’ of DSOTM to The Wall, but I’ve no problem with it on the ‘Floyd web, same as Nick’s tour etc.
As for the current Animals issue… come on guys… cut the cr*p and stop squabbling in public. We’ve all had a hard last 12 months, are all getting older and don’t need any more excuses for the delay. Either publish it now, and everything else, and make a few people like me happy. Otherwise don’t complain when by the time you do no one cares to buy it anymore.
Pink Floyd social media regularly promotes the whole band history, just not Roger solo. Apparently this bothers Waters, who thinks that they should promote his current stuff for him.
You mean the same way the site happily promotes Dave’s solo stuff for him (and even Dave’s wife’s books – when was she in Pink Floyd?)
She does co-write Pink Floyd songs, so it’s not quite as black and white as that, but yeah…
They can promote Nick Mason’s dogs. It does not matter. Waters has no right to their favour.
Grumpy old man is grumpy. Again.
save the planet and just release a 24-bit high-res digital download + .pdf booklet
You are on the wrong website…
I’ve followed this site for many years now.. and there are many deluxe editions also available as high-res downloads. SDE is a good reference to keep informed of upcoming deluxe editions regardless of media. My circumstances have changed and I move regularly so a large library of physical media has become a luxury. As for this album, I can appreciate the demand for a surround mix on disc, say blu-ray or SACD ..Although there are many who don’t want to be held to ransom to purchases a whole “box set” of LP, CD and Blu-ray Disc when they just simply want one high-res stereo version of the original album.
Perhaps there is a “highresdownload.com” website out there somewhere to address your preferences. If not, you could start one.
Aside from the bickering, I can see an updated release of this album with all [?] the extras once they settle their differences – which will mean a long wait.
Aside from that why throw everithing into a box? You’ll be getting [by my count] at least 6 versions of the same album [once on LP, once on CD, twice on DVD and twice on DVD]. Including the LP alone will probably at least double the price because of the cost of the LP and extra packaging.
I would prefer LP, CD/DVD and CD/BR sets.
Ridiculous squabbling continuing into these two Gentleman’s old age!
My personal opinion is that the whole origins/ problems relate to Pink Floyd continuing as an ongoing concern, after Roger Waters left the band. And as the comments reflect the fans, also argue about who’s right, and who’s wrong!
Both Roger Waters and David Gilmour do a disservice to the incredible music,they created together. Just stop it!!
I’m unclear about the “bickering in public” claims. Has Gilmour said anything? It just looks like Waters is throwing his toys out the pram again. Is it that big of a deal for a band member to veto some liner notes (proven below to be inaccurate anyway)? Do we need to know about this (or even care)?
Waters would argue with a statue. It’s just so undignified.
“Waters would argue with a statue.” Brilliant, I’m stealing this ;-)
A quick count of the names mentioned in the liner notes shows 2 mentions for Gilmour, 1 each for Mason and Wright, and 10 for Waters. I may have missed some. Can’t imagine why Gilmour got upset… The notes don’t add anything that someone buying Animals in 5.1 wouldn’t already know. I’m happy to have the music without them.
There is an option missing in the poll:
“Both should put on their big-boy pants and stop squabbling like selfish three year olds”.
I think that’s basically option 3…
I wonder whether, in 1977, there were people still arguing about who should have had the greater credit for the score of Gold Diggers of 1933 ? :)
It is incredible to think that we are talking about the timescale that you point out. It is hard to believe that Animals was released forty four years ago, or likely, more than half of most of our lifetimes ago.
I don’t really care about the bickering, but am glad that they care enough to still have an edge with each other. When it mattered, that niggle must have pushed each other to produce better quality records, and all these years later we still get to enjoy what are amazing albums.
If I would believer, I’d believe Waters is a prophet.
… Hey you, Whitehouse
Ha ha, charade you are …
No bonus tracks or live matérial in the future box set ? without me surely .I bought the lp and the cd few years ago for the last reissue campaign
Yes. But this is the 2018 remix. :-)
Regarding the Pink Floyd website, it should strictly be for Pink Floyd music only, not for an artist solo project.
Except if one of the surviving members such as Nick Mason touring early Pink Floyd music or Waters decides to tour The Wall again. Then there should be publicity about it on the band website.
Surely the important thing is…does the Animals boxset contain Marbles or a scarf? :)
Don’t forget carboard coasters.
More appropriate would be a customized version of the game ‘Pass the Pigs’. Unhappily, I fear that there would be discord over whether the pigs should resemble Dave or Roger…
I’m not interested in choosing sides in the falling out of Gilmour and Waters, I just want to enjoy the music.
As far as the ‘Animals’ box set is concerned, it’s disappointing that there doesn’t seem to be any live stuff included but as a huge fan of ‘Animals’ anyway, I’ll certainly be buying the new boxset.
Missed opportunity to include the 8 track version of Pigs on the Wing Ptah 1 and 2, connected by an ace Snowy White solo.
And no cassette which is the new in thing now. If SW and Macca released one, PF needs to. :-)
I think it’s genuinely sad that two men with such outstanding talent feel the need to squabble in public over such trivial matters. I’m sure Roger’s personality and tendency to lash out wasn’t a secret to anyone who worked with him for so long, and that David knows exactly what he’s doing when he makes decisions that will get Roger’s back up. I remember after Live8 (even on stage) there was a feeling Waters was leaning towards some sort of reconciliation and even the possibility they might work together again. David was adamant it would never happen.
I’m not sure if Roger saw David as a second choice he didn’t really want after Syd Barrett had to leave the band, but surely if that was the case they would never have produced such a body of work together over the next 10 years or so?
They just need to grow up, agree and compromise on what are minor details and give fans what they have been desperate for. They only need to do it once a year maximum. Is that too much to ask?
To the folks who have claimed that Animals was all about Roger, I would like to point out that Animals was probably PF’s most guitar-centric album. Certainly the concept that tied the songs together was Roger’s, but the guitar work on this album is incredible. And as much as I enjoy Roger’s work, he seriously degrades himself by acting like this issue of who deserves the most credit is worth continually whining about. David is a gentleman and is not out there participating in this tit-for-tat argument. Roger acts like an a** for burning down their legacy out of spite just so a few people know that HE was top dog.
exactly.
I know Gilmour was p1ssed off with the his share of writing credits. For example the splitting of Pig’s on a Wing into two songs that are under 1.5 minutes each meant that Waters got 2/5ths of the album’s writing credits off the bat. That was his beef, Waters earned more as the sole writer from just one of those short songs than David did from co-writing a 17 min song with him, which obviously took so much longer to create, produce and record.
How can you continue a feud after an international pandemic that wiped out generations ? Talented musicians/artists but lousy humans…
Yep , because every divorced couple I know immediately reconciled because of the pandemic. It takes more than a virus to kill a decade long feud.
Oh honestly, do these two grown men not know that when Mummy and Daddy fight, it’s the kids that suffer? Roger needs to give it a rest with the barbs, but David equally needs to stop reacting to them. And where’s Nick in all of this? I thought he’d be negotiating the ceasefire between them – or banging their heads together.
Animals isn’t one of my favourites so I’ll be giving it a swerve, but it’s good to see it finally released. Kind of puts the Seeds Of Love box set delays in perspective, doesn’t it?
Used to be on Gilmour’s side. Now I might be changing. I don’t know. Wish these two could just bury the hatchet, but not in each other.
I’m on the Waters side of this argument. The band was always primarily his, and to omit the dominant voice from its own history seems petty at best. Still, rock is littered with bruised egos — and control means money. Waters should never have relinquished the band’s name in 1985.
That said, Blake’s liner notes are fairly trite. He summarizes a well-worn history, and makes a number of factual errors. “Raving And Drooling” was not “performed live for the first time on the Floyd’s winter tour of 1974” but had been premiered in France in June. Prior to “Animals” “every Pink Floyd studio release had been partly or wholly recorded at Abbey Road” is not true — neither “More” nor “Obscured By Clouds” were recorded there at all. And so on. Blake also spends far too much of his energies on the worn-out story about the record sleeve. Does the target audience for this release not already know that?
Still, here’s right on the trajectory here. Gilmour hadn’t understood why “Raving And Drooling” and “You Gotta Be Crazy” were left off what became “Wish You Were Here” and contributed nothing new to the writing of “Animals.” And Blake was diplomatic not to bring up the “Pigs On The Wing” 8-track…
More & Obscured are film soundtracks so technically aren’t studio albums.
“Waters should never have relinquished the band’s name in 1985.”
By all accounts, The Final Cut was like pulling teeth. Michael Kamen was so exasperated that he kept writing “I must not fuck sheep”. Nick mostly stayed away from the studio to help with recording the holophonic sound fx. (There is no drummer on about half the songs, and Nick didn’t play much drums in the next few years.) Many of David’s few solos sound like he really couldn’t be bothered. The one song on which he gets a vocal is one he does not like. Roger himself says he can hear the bad atmosphere in his own vocal performances, which are often strained. The album got extremely mixed reviews. There was no tour for it. Rick was already gone and felt slightly vindicated by how Roger was basically now using the same powerplay on David that Roger had used on Rick before. Bob Ezrin had been jettisoned too, as well as Storm Thorgerson.
How on earth do you think this situation could’ve been resolved?
Oh, ffs. Over liner notes, I for one, would have never bothered to read. My favorite band ever, but this is tiresome. Maybe their kids will want the money bad enough to release all the 5.1 and or 4.0 that’s being used held back over stupid bullshit. I just hope I’m still around to enjoy it.
They’re welcome to argue as much as they like and I’ll just enjoy it as a bit of unnecessary and mildly ridiculous entertainment. What’s more disappointing to me is the apparent lack of anything other than different versions of the album in this set if the label is to be believed. Then again, surely their record company would want to insist on it being a ‘2021 remix’ or simply ‘newly remixed’ to emphasise this is new product so maybe that label is from when this disagreement began. I seem to remember Nick Mason saying they were looking for more content to include in an Animals box set a few years ago so let’s hope this is just an old mock-up and they’ve got something else to offer as, whatever the content, I can’t imagine them releasing anything cheap so it might as well include something else like outtakes if live material isn’t up to par.
After reading the entire thing on Waters’ website, I highly doubt this will ever see the light of day now.
The pettiness and vindictive tone about something as trivial as the Money SFX loops from nearly a half century ago is something that didn’t need o be said. And with the promise of more salacious stories to come in the memoirs…why would DG even bother?
Why not aim the same fire at Gilmour. If Waters is telling the truth, then it seems incredibly silly to refuse something due to some liner notes the band had previously signed off on. As for taking credit for things you never did, it’s hardly trivial. It’s a shame they can’t get on, but laying that at the feet of Waters alone sounds biased to me.
“If Waters is telling the truth”
That’s right…if Waters is telling the truth (or remembering everything from 50 years ago perfectly accurately). Since neither you or I were there, we don’t know. And as of right now, we’re only hearing Waters’ side of this story…as he’s the one whose chosen to air their dirty laundry in public.
I loved the Floyd Wars back in the 1980s and 90s. Good to see them back, they add to the gaiety of the nation. Even better that it’s a spat over the best album from their Imperial Phase (1973-80).
On a slightly more serious note, I think Chuckles (Roger) has a point in that none of his solo stuff gets a look in on the official PF site and socials, but Polly’s godawful books and Dave’s family singalongs are prominently featured. Very odd. Just goes to show that actually, Nick and his Saucers rule.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to this box comning out and I hope Dave (or Polly) doesn’t have a strop and stops it coming out.
Waters- words fail me. Pathetic. Live and let live eh mate.
It was Gilmour who refused to release this set after he changed his mind about the liner notes. Why the attack on Waters?
Because Waters could have just let it slide and not vent his spleen by publically proclaiming how in the right he actually is?
I do wonder, if some of this “public” bickering is part of a secret deal that, at the very least, has fans talking about music that was made an eternity ago, and is frankly, of very little relevance to the general public. It’s the old adage: bad publicity is better than none at all. Look no further than Fleetwood Mac and recent escapades…
PF’s and FM’s music is VERY relevant today. Especially PF’s. The themes drawn out in their imperial phase are as prescient today as they were back then. Actually even more so as most of their fears about how capitalism alienates and leads to mental disconnect and illness has largely come to pass. The world is living in PF’s worst nightmares and is even more disconnected today than back then. There is a mountain of socio-economic data to back that up– from inequality to rates of mental illness to the inevitable violence’s that comes from living in a greed driven social abyss. Laughably, there are people that still think bands like PF should just “shut up and play”. Those folks are, perhaps, missing the whole point.
I wholly agree about the bands’ themes. But relevance does not extend itself to the truth. One could make the point, for example, that Dante’s Divine Comedy should be as relevant as ever, however, short of a smart marketing team, or an effective public spat, no one will seek out a poem written centuries ago. And whatever ends up gaining relevance, may be far from containing any morsels of truth. Regardless of Waters’ and Gilmour’s true feelings about each other, or the truth contained in their work, the music in question no longer reaches the wider public’s consciousness the same way it did in, say 1980 or 1990. Given, that popular music generally no longer holds the public’s attention, the open airing of (supposed) misgivings does the brand “Pink Floyd” rather well.
But maybe the misgivings are real. The point I’m making is, none of it distracts from the work – nothing is diminished – regardless of whom came up with the cash register loop – Waters, Gilmour or Alan Parsons – at the very least, it has a certain generation of fans thinking about the music. But what I’d really like to know: whose idea was it to include those lost marbles in the boxsets a few years back?
The marbles were supposedly Storm Thorgerson’s idea. It was part of his typical humour: Somebody lost their marbles (i.e. gone insane) – look, we found them!
They might wish to remember…
“And when you lose control, you’ll reap the harvest you have sown
And as the fear grows, the bad blood slows and turns to stone
And it’s too late to lose the weight you used to need to throw around
So have a good drown, as you go down all alone
Dragged down by the stone”
Oh, and by the way, has this got anything to do with the long delayed Analogue Productions hybrid multichannel SACD of Dark Side of the Moon?
Or they might choose to remember!
Iv got a bike you can ride it if you like!
I don’t know why I call it Gerald,,,or something like that!
Well apologies. This is my second comment on this matter. I can’t wait to see Nick Mason Saucerful of Secrets next year after a two year postponement. There will be no liner notes, no snide comments, no bickering, but just good music, played by men who are enjoying themselves. Get the hint David & Roger!!
Yes indeed. I very much enjoyed the Live at the Roundhouse 2CD+DVD. Gave me a new appreciation of early Pink Floyd songs, which can be very hit-and-miss. Will keep an eye open for rescheduled tour dates.
I would not put Nick Mason on my list of favorite drummers of all time, but he gets full credit (with help from his Saucerful bandmates) for making good use of his time and influence in the past 10 years, between the Saucerful gigs and the Early Years box sets. Well done, Nick.
These two guys ! An acrimonious divorce usually remains an acrimonious divorce & petty arguments over things that happened 50 years ago retain startling relevance for the parties involved long after everyone else stopped caring. I’m sure that post-mortem they’ll still be fighting upstairs (or downstairs) over who got the bigger gravestone & the better memorial concert.
Ironic the words ‘I Choose Love’ are graphically on the front of Us + Them. Nuff said.
I logged in to vote but there wasn’t
D) Couldn’t care less
option, so I’ve abstained…
Hey Roger, ever heard the phrase “thou protest too much”? It’s a sign you’re wrong, and insecure. FYI
They both seem to be a pain. I think it may have bothered Roger over the years at all the success Pink Floyd had
after he left . Would fans flock to see Floyd over the years if they no longer played any songs Waters wrote ? Im really excited
about the 5.1 of Animals and Id love to see a surround sound of The Wall someday, not sure how that wasn’t included as it seemed to be the perfect album for such treatment.
All things considered, this is ridiculous. I’ve seen and heard enough Roger interviews to know he has a very high opinion of himself, and is quick to take perceived offence at things that aren’t there. Roger is very keen for everyone to know he is “the creative genius of Pink Floyd”, implying that the contributions of David, Rick and Nick don’t amount to anything much.
Roger is fire, and David is ice : I can easily see how the two wouldn’t work well together. If I had to pick one of the two to go for a drink with, it would always be Nick.
It doesn’t matter one jot who created the tape loops in 1973 (or 1981), though apparently it does to some people. Only David and Roger really seem to care. From an outsiders perspective, they’re both incredibly rich, successful, and have found satisfying creative avenues for their talents that allows them to release music and headline stadiums, so arguing over microscopically small nothings from fifty years ago is just ….. bizarre.
As for Roger not having access to the Pink Floyd website? Officially Pink Floyd still consist of David, Nick, and up to his death Rick, so it would be fair for each of those three to be able to contribute to the ongoing site (the quality of such contributions is another matter). Roger left Pink Floyd, and when you leave, you lose some of your privileges : including access to the bands website. You don’t get visitation rights to the cat when you divorce!
And yet not too long ago the PF online store was selling one of Polly’s books, no? When was she in the band? And if the rules can be bent for her, then RW has every right to be aggrieved.
Polly Samson has been with DG and writing for him since Division Bell. It does not concern Roger, who left the band long ago. If Nick had a problem with it maybe he could have said something.
Well, I’d run things differently than David, but ultimately, the PF site reflects PF “as is” (and not PF as was fifty years ago!), and thus David, Rick and Nick related activity would understandably be in scope and Roger, being ex-PF wouldn’t be. Ultimately it’s David, Nick and Rick’s estate that make the rules about the website of the band they are still participants in, whereas Roger surrendered his right to have his opinion carry any weight when he left.
Polly has been writing lyrics for Pink Floyd since Momentary Lapse of Reason, and been the primary lyricist since Division Bell. So she is as much “in the band” as Bernie is in Elton John’s.
“You don’t get visitation rights to the cat when you divorce!”
True… But maybe you should. I think Waters has some kind of over-reaction gene that causes him to go off full cocked on stuff that doesn’t mean jack. Using the PF site to get closer to their fans, however, is a reasonable request and would have been a smart agreement for every party. Each of the surviving members has material to offer, there will be no more new Floyd recordings, they all share in the reissue returns, and they also – I believe – are caretakers of the solo recordings made by Rick Wright and Syd Barrett. If not, they should be, since pinkfloyd.com must be the biggest store window in which the goods can be fully displayed. Somebody shows up for info or merch from Waters, and leaves with the last Gilmour live album on CD besides. Who’s a loser there? If Gilmour was worried that Rog would threaten some world leader with assasination, then you just make these the rules of the playground: Hawk your tour, even promo a charity, but keep your viewpoint in your own locker.
I’m not saying I agree with David, but I see David’s point more I see Rogers. It wouldn’t hurt to have a button linking to Rogers solo site, with text “Roger Waters, ex-Pink Floyd” on it…. although when Roger posts stuff like that I can see why David might not want to link to it.
Roger would undoubtedly use the PF page in ways that David wouldn’t agree with. Irrespective of personal political opinions, David doesn’t make explicit political statements apart from the odd one about charities, and Roger most definitely wants us all to know his political views.
Roger should have gotten a neutral third party to submit the odd text about his latest endeavours to the PF site. That way there would be no danger of things going overboard.
Will either Waters or Gilmour on their deathbed say “it was worth it”? I doubt it. I’m sure they will both regret it. And as Elton said “Sorry seams to be the hardest word”.
Personally would love to see the release of The Wall and The Final Cut on hi-res multichannel 5.1 or better release.
Q. what is the release date?
Also, l’m generally in the Roger camp, however, I seem to remember that David re-recorded Money for the collection of dance songs album and he would have had to recreate the tape loops from scratch. therefore David can’t have been telling porkies. Didn’t David play all the instruments on that track apart from bringing in the sax player- jolly good multi instrumentalist and singer. Can’ t wait for thisrelease, it’s the album that I have played the most times in the last 30 odd years, which is amazing since I’m only 21, mmmm, mmm excuse me.
he would have had to recreate the tape loops from scratch
Not necessarily. The music, certainly, but the FX, maybe/probably not
The tape loop on the remake of Money is the same as on the original, the only difference is an extra sound right before the loop starts (which was also performed live in concert).
But from all I’ve read and heard, the whole band + Alan Parsons were involved with putting together the piece for the album, so Roger is simply being wrong here. Yes, he created a loop of his own that you can hear on his demo, but that’s not the one on the album.
There goes Roger again, pining on about things absolutely no one cares about. That being said, bring this on!!
While I am very much pro-Gilmour and think Roger is an arrogant trouble maker, it’s unfortunate the ancient animosities (which I thought were starting to heal a decade ago) have apparently held up this release. Just let it go, guys. At this point, what does it really matter?
No, Animals isn’t my favorite Floyd album, but I’d love to have another from the catalog in high-res.
I would not believe anything Roger says, ever
Would you cast doubt on his claims his father died in the war?
Was it all a pack of lies?
Was the final cut built on fake news?
No, no, and no. And BTW, you’re soaking in it.
I would– I’ve read his lyrics– and I do believe he was and continues to be far better informed and inspired than most (but not all) of the artists working today– by miles. His darkest fears, that were brilliantly expressed through his songs, have mostly come to pass– with a vengeance. It is what it is. Mr. Waters became the leader of PF when it mattered because he had the greatest artistic vision period. Same reason why Ringo’s songs (as fun as they are) do not dominate Beatles albums.
You would wot?
Believe wot Roger says. He has no reason to lie about his work with PF, while DG is willing to kill an album release because he doesn’t like what, no one, disputes are truthful liner notes regarding the history of the making of the album.
I don’t think there’s an ego clash between Roger Waters and David Gilmour. Simply Roger Waters will never stop pointing out even in a rather polemical and resentful way his artistic legacy regarding Pink Floyd. All of this is legitimate but it seems far removed from David Gilmour’s priorities whose contribution to Pink Floyd’s sound as guitarist, voice and producer is unquestionably as crucial as Roger Waters’ contribution as songwriter and producer. Roger’s solo discography is the greatest proof of this. It has never even remotely reached the heights reached with Pink Floyd. Perhaps an exception is “Is This The Life We Really Want”, certainly Roger’s best solo album. Yet you feel that there is something missing … But try to imagine it with the contribution of David Gilmour. Try to imagine it with some guitar solos and David’s voice. It would certainly have been a worthy new chapter in Pink Floyd history. And instead it’s the best thing Roger Waters produced as a soloist. With all his strengths and weaknesses of him ….
David Gilmour’s solo career is even more lacking– suffers from the worse sin of playing it very very safe as well as being pretty damn boring– while Waters took real artistic risk and followed his muse despite the commercial implications. All that said, the world could have really used at least one more real PF album rather than the Disney ride that they became after Waters left the band. Wish they could have worked it out by now.
Except I like Gilmour’s last two albums quite a bit, especially in the last live album. But Roger’s stuff since Final Cut is more like listening to a very preachy drama play than music to me.
Roger Waters last album was truly amazing. Miles above anything he or the others have done in terms of solo work.
I’d have to agree with you Paul. His last work was excellent by any standard and I appreciate that he has never lost his fire or passion for humanity and our world. He’s always tried to use his art to expand consciousness rather that to just entertain (not that there’s a thing wrong with that). Sometimes that can make listening to ITTLWRW a bit more of a commitment, but to me it’s worth it.
I like Amused to Death – it could’ve been shorter but has some good musical ideas and a fairly coherent lyrical statement. Still don’t know what Broken Bones is supposed to be about or why Roger complains about alcohol in Deja Vu.
But I’ll take any of David’s solo albums over it most of the time.
No kidding. Was hoping for a remastered version of the live Montreal bootlegs that are out there on the nets….
“whopping porky pies”
Sometimes I forget that Waters and Gilmour are grandpas.
If they were a family, I wouldn’t want to be at their place for Christmas dinner. They put out some great music. Too bad they can’t be content with what they achieved and move on. I know they have to look after and protect their legacy, but airing the dirty laundry tarnishes that legacy.
Almost humorous if it wasn’t so sad. Funny, I have been with people telling stories about the past, and at times people recall the events differently. I am sure there is an element of that going on and massive egos clashing like giant inflatable pigs over a power station.
I think David Gilmour is one of the best guitarists going and his voice was / is essential to Pink Floyd. However, I tend to agree with Roger Waters on many issues about Pink Floyd and beyond. That said, Roger is a bit of c*** and can take things way too far. Perhaps Roger is just a grumpy old codger.
As for Animals being held up by Roger’s release of the text, not so sure that will happen. The blurb won’t be included in the release and therefore won’t go down on the permanent record. David and all stand to make a lot of money as well from this long anticipated release.
I wish that Roger could have been a reasonable bloke and work things out back in the 1980’s with the rest of the band. Taken a sabbatical, just agreed to disagree, etc.. But like the Beatles, that just did not happen. As mentioned before, David is a really talented guitarist, but for better or worse, I don’t think Pink Floyd retained the Pink Floyd sound after Roger’s leaving. For me, Roger’s “Is This the Life We Really Want?” was more Floyd-like and eclipsed all of PF’s releases after 1983.
Funny as usual to read Roger Waters talking and throwing jabs at David Gilmour.
I like Waters but he’s wasting time because very few people care about liner notes and their veracity (except PF members). Gilmour was silly to veto that release because of liner notes. 35 years ago, Waters sued him about the name and legacy of Pink Floyd and he won and released a few more Floyd albums so it’s pointless to continue to fight with Waters for stuff like liner notes. I think everybody knows Animals was mainly written by Roger Waters and Nick Mason summed it best when he said for Waters songwriting is everything while for Gilmour it’s performing. Even though I like Waters a lot, songwriting isn’t everything for a rock band. Black Francis wrote most of the Pixies songs and often said at the time he was the leader and main creative force of the band. During interviews he often undermined other members of the band, especially Kim Deal. He went solo and never reached the cult status and success he had with the Pixies. It turned out Joey Santiago, Kim Deal and David Lovering were as important as him in the sound and success of the Pixies. Just like Santiago for the Pixies, Gilmour and his guitar were very important for Pink Floyd. Liner notes won’t change History so it was pointless to veto that release.
I agree fully with your comments regarding Pixies, though I think in Floyd there was way more debt owed to the other band members for creating much of the music.
Considering Nick had to remove pages from his “Inside Out” book at Roger’s behest, seems a bit hypocritical for Rog to complain about David wanting to do the same. I know Rog wants to keep up the illusion that the band was all him in the 70’s and while he was undoubtedly the creative force to get projects moving, as his solo work shows without David and Rick it would not have sounded as good as it did without them there. So, yeah, I feel David (and Rick!) deserve credit for how the albums sound as it was not a one man band. It is, after all, music albums, not spoken word albums.
Roger not only left of his own accord almost 40 years ago, he tried to scuttle the entire enterprise so no one else could use the name. He made it very clear he didn’t need Pink Floyd anymore and was a solo artist. Be happy with your decisions and your own FB page.I don’t see Mick Abrams demanding Jethrotull.com list all the Blodwyn Pig album info and reissues. Looks like, as usual, it all comes down to where the money comes from. Money…ironic that.
All that said, was really hoping they were relaxing in their old age and lightening up a bit, especially with the occasional appearances David and Roger were doing together in the 2000’s. Guess some scars, or pure bitterness, just run too deep.
Nick had to remove pages from his “Inside Out” book at Roger’s behest
Roger’s main complaint was that there wasn’t enough sex in the book. It was Dave who wielded the red pen and wanted certain passages removed – stuff about the 1974 British Winter Tour especially. Waters may have a gigantic ego, but he’s not a censor or someone to cover things up. Dave, who is as much of a control freak as RW is/was, would be more happy to keep certain stuff hidden.
I seem to remember Nick saying Roger would fax him entire pages of he book with an “X” through them and an expletive or two written down, and more or less demanding he remove them.
While I voted that they both have understandable grievances, at the end of the day, I can’t help but feel Roger is the worse of the two. I think carrying around a grudge for an interview almost 40 years ago that I’m sure nobody else even remembers tells you everything you need to know about him. It’s no wonder Gilmour isn’t particularly inclined to meet him halfway at this point. I can’t say I would be, either.
Now, let’s just hope they issue this release in a reasonable format, and not some box set that includes vinyl and DVD. It’s already unfortunate they couldn’t include live material from ’77.
So sad to see this Waters Gilmour drama still going on an on…Why?! Old guys, rich, famous, creators of wonderful music and witnesses of a magical time more concerned in arguing over ancient and rotten disagreements. The band is no more and we the fans, still believe in all those powerful years and the spine-chilling music they made. This just destroys that image we have of a magical past where unforgetable music reigned. Just focus on the couple of years you too have left and be happy! So much bad stuff going on in our world, just make peace!
So both will be dead in 24 month’s?
The couple of years left? It’s possible that they both still live twenty odd years more. Not sure if they still can sing and play then!
I think Roger mimes at the moment,,jarmo hope your well my friend
Roger comes across as a bit of a misogynist with his constant references to Polly Sampson.
I don’t think he’s referencing Polly Sampson because she’s a woman, more about her being a Yoko Ono type disrupter.
Polly was not even around until after Roger quit.
Wasn’t the PF online store at one point selling a book of Polly’s (not a PF member) while refusing to sell Roger’s stuff? That’s the sort of thing makes me sympathise completely with RW.
Except Polly is not only married to DG but basically his songwriting partner for 2 decades. Roger left 4 decades ago.
Exactly, Polly has been the lyricist for Pink Floyd since the mid 8o’s. Technically, counting the time between AMLoR an Endless River, she has been writing lyrics for PF longer than Roger. Quality & quantity notwithstanding…
Except, Roger was the songwriter, not just the lyricist – that means the melodies and harmonic structures AND the lyrics. That was Roger the vast majority of the time, whilst the overall themes and concepts were entirely his.
If we’re honestly trying to equate Polly Samson’s contribution to Pink Floyd with that of Roger Waters then we’re seriously down the rabbit hole!
Moreosver….
Polly is PF lyricist because she is David’s wife
David (a PF member) wrote several songs for the audio version of her book. This was even promoted by Paul on this very site!
I don’t think it puts either of them in a particularly good light and personally I’d love to see them bury the hatchet with (dare I say it) the possibility of them working together again. Yes I know this isn’t going to happen…
I thought the frost was starting to melt when Dave performed at Roger’s Wall show in London (10 years ago now?) after Dave had Roger join him for some charity performance…can’t recall exactly what that was. Oh well, maybe not.
They were on friendly terms at that time. The charity was for Palestinian children.
I think it all started going downhill when David and Nick decided to revisit the 1993 sessions and released The Endless River. Roger must’ve felt they were stealing his thunder just when he had started to fill in for the vacant space of “Pink Floyd”. Then the Early Years debacle happened with Roger apparently not getting to hear the 5.1 mixes of Meddle and OBC, hence their removal from the final product. What else went on behind the scenes, G-d knows.
No matter what you think of Waters’ conduct, he did have the major conceptual ideas and wrote the bulk of the material. I’d even suggest, that Richard Wright had a more important stake in the compositional aspect of Pink Floyd. Looking at Gilmour’s solo output alone, it’s not hard to argue, that Gilmour’s contribution to Pink Floyd is just that – a wonderful musician: jolly-good singing and passionate, honest guitar-playing, with the occasional bit song-writing in between. Too bad he didn’t get to do more of the singing, esp. given the strained, often unbearable voice of Waters (which is much more listenable these days – with a warm and worn tone). Nasty business – good luck to them – I hope they can make peace someday.
All I can see in my mind’s eye is Nick Mason sat somewhere with his head in his hands…
Nick is well-known for his fence-sitting, and he’s not about to change now :-)
and thinking what Ferrai will i buy with these royalties
Yes, and Nick – probably the most expendable member in Pink Floyd. Nice bloke who added very little to the overall mix (strictly musically speaking, of course).
Nah.
You notice Nick once he’s missing.
Listen to Steve DiStanislao, a fine drummer in his own right, play OOTD and Money with David in 2016. Just doesn’t sound right.
Roger! Don’t ‘Fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way… Every year is getting shorter… The time is gone, the song is over.’
Get over it!
I read the whole post on the RW website last night and I was just wondering if both of them maybe did too many drugs in the 70s to remember those things correctly. The whole thing both “Bores and amuses me to death” at the same time. Yoko, what’s next? Peace.
Dear Roger, Shine on you crazy megalomaniac.
Waters simply knows that stirring up controversy is: 1) what we expect of him; 2) selling copies of an album that should have been part of a reissue campaign that has petered out long ago; 3) taking away the attention from the fact that there will be no marbles included; 4) diverting eyeballs from the PF site to his; 5) guaranteed to make pigs fly.
You could possibly understand it if Roger wasn’t getting a fair share, however he’s sounding like an absolute tool sometimes, and a bitter one at that. Obviously stems from losing the rights to the PF name, I’m guessing. Sad because it tarnishes the legacy.
And he’s not fit to be prime minister either – oops sorry that’s from another couple having a childish rant. Then again it’s all about creating publicity.
It should be about the music not them – Animals is a brilliant album they should take great pride in and that should be what matters.
It all seems very Roger irrelevant. I am a huge Floyd fan. Both Waters’ and Gilmour’s finest moments were as a part of Floyd until Waters left. All this public bickering achieves nothing and is childish. Waters was, no doubt, in full control at the time of Animals and we don’t need sleeve notes to tell us that. Waters thinks its all about the songs but his songs with Gilmour’s guitar (and bass) are simply better. His solo career bears out this simple truth. But Gilmour is no better – why not let Roger post on the PF site ? They should both be admitted to the Fletcher Memorial Home.
Regarding posting or promoting Roger’s work on offical PF channels. I’ve said this before but – for instance – if Paul and a work partner had created this site and everything within it and dedicated most of their professional adult life to it, then that partner decided to go and do something else of his own free will, how would Paul feel if that partner then decided that Paul no longer should use the SDE name, simply because other partner had decided to leave and go and do something else?
If that conflict was then resolved and the other partner eventually backed down, would you think Paul would be super enthusiastic about then using that same channel to actively promote the other guys new line of work? And in Roger’s case he would expect – I imagine – more than just a shout out to a new album release.
Why would anyone expect to do what Roger done to Gilmour, Mason and Wright then somehow expect to be given the keys to the kingdom again.
It doesn’t diminish what they all achieved together, but Roger hasn’t been in Pink Floyd since 1985 because he chose to leave and sought to pretty much destroy them afterwards. Why oh why do people think he should somehow be given the right to post on the PF site? I just don’t get it.
Sure someone will point out ex members posting on sites but this is different because of how Roger went about it and what he sought to do after.
Because he earned the right through producing most of the material on their seminal albums between 1973 and 1982.
He made the band his band by doing that work. He is Pink Floyd for that period which (ahem) eclipsesbanything tha came before or after both commercially and artistically.
You don’t really get the ability to get posting rights on your ex workplaces social media channels because you worked there in the 70’s and 80’s.
He left. He chose to leave. Then tried to stop them calling themselves pink Floyd.
He isn’t in Pink Floyd. He signed those rights away.
It’s quite simple really.
It’s not a matter of respect or what people feel he has earned. Or if you prefer Roger or David.
He isn’t in Pink Floyd. It’s as simple as that so it’s not up to him.
Hmmm… not so sure. John announced he was leaving the Beatles in August ’69 and effectively started the process that ended in the band splitting up. He’s not out in the cold because of this. Okay, I know it’s not quite the same thing, but similar principles apply. George Harrison doesn’t have to make do with less coverage on Beatles social channels because he was not the main creative force. NO ONE is ‘in’ Pink Floyd anymore so that’s not relevant. They are a legacy act now.
As I commented elsewhere when someone commented that Genesis promoted all their ex-members’ activities, it’s different when Peter Gabriel didn’t spend the better part of a decade trying to sue his old bandmates for continuing as Genesis without him. Had Waters been a bit more gracious back then (and on through today), it might be easier for Gilmour to consider promoting Waters’ activities. At any rate, I thought the liner notes to be just a tad one-sided anyway, so I get why Gilmour balked. Alas, it’s too bad they couldn’t have just allowed each member to contribute their own notes, like they did for Is There Anybody Out There?
Yes, but Gilmour and Mason aren’t really in Pink Floyd anymore either (since DG said, or at least heavily implied, that the band is over). At this point, all three of them are ex-members. Legally, DG and NM are Pink Floyd. But creatively, all three of them should have the same share in the band’s decisions.
It would be a whole different thing if RW would try to have a say in post-1985 material.
But to your point, creatively, all three of them DID share in this decision. Waters wanted the liner notes included, Gilmour didn’t. So Waters compromised and conceded to not include them, in order to get the product out (and then posted them on his own website anyway.)
Yes, I do wish they could all get along well enough so that Waters’ projects could be included through the PF channels. I certainly have more interest in his activities than Polly Samson’s. But after everything that’s gone down between the two parties, I’m not at all surprised that Gilmour and co. have no interest in allowing Waters to those channels. Aside from which, you know Waters would immediately want to start making political statements that Gilmour, right or wrong, doesn’t want to touch with a 10 foot pole. At this point, it’s far easier for Gilmour to just say “no, use your own platform.”
In the end, I just wish that Rog and David would read all of these comments and just realise what an opportunity they are throwing away with this public fight.
Agreed. And have you noticed that the PF store has been promoting and selling Roger Waters items lately? that surprised me. But he is not content.
The remnants and reputations of so many older bands are being tarnished by the division (bell?) of the various members, it seems to be an endless charade! Pink Floyd, The Kinks etc etc etc etc etc… The bands and members are mostly all in the autumn/winters of their careers and the fans aren’t getting any younger either – so why on earth do they allow their egos and bank accounts (and wives!) to tarnish their legacies? So very sad. (PS – I may be in a minority of liking the post-Waters Floyd material as much as any of the band’s catalogue.)
There are others. I hold The Division Bell up there with Meddle & WYWH, my two faves of theirs.
Floyd released their best material in the period when the conflict between Waters and Gilmour was in full force (1973-1979). When Waters took complete control, it was over. When Gilmour took complete control, it was done.
Some bands just thrive on inner conflict. Pink Floyd is one of them. The Police is another (which, IMO, their reunion tour wasn’t so great; I did not sense much conflict and things were just a bit “too nice”).
Having said that, now that they’re not together anymore, Waters should just let it go. It’s OK to make a subtle dig here and there, but to be this bitter, at this age? Hmmmmm….
I’ll sum it up this way…If you went to a PF show and they played NOTHING recorded before Momentary lapse of reason, would you be upset? If you went and they played NOTHING recorded after the Wall would you be upset? Most fans come to see the songs and visuals Roger created…
Personally I would gladly listen to PF post-Waters, and solo Gilmour. But I’d just as well hear spoken word from a boring newscaster for 2 hours as endure solo Roger Waters.
Gilmour played quite a few songs from the post-Waters Pink Floyd albums on his 2015/2016 solo tour and they were among the highlights of the set. “Sorrow” was unreal.
Exactly… Point well made.
DG simply does not and never has possessed much songwriting capability. His solo albums, especially before PS started writing the words, were pretty embarrassing. Never held a candle to RW, never will.
Nothing embarrassing about DG’s solo debut, a total classic. I prefer it to both of the following Floyd records.
And I’m still not sure there are any songs on RW’s latest. Just some recitations and a few chords randomly stuck together. I paid half price for it and still wonder why I bought it.
Doesn’t sound like you’ve given Roger’s album a chance. I really don’t understand how anyone whole likes 1970s Pink Floyd wouldn’t love ‘Is This The Life We Really Want’? It’s a great set of songs, it has quite an analogue-y retro production and has lots of sound effects and atmosphere. Roger can be guilty of not having the songs to meet his visions, but with the last album it all came together perfectly and he hit the sweet spot. Easily the best thing he’s done outside PF.
Not really. There isn’t a single song on it I really like bar the title track. There are few CDs in my collection I enjoyed less (but I’m a more discriminating buyer than the average SDE reader).
Held off buying the album because I was so disappointed when I heard Deja Vu, which still sounds almost like self-parody to me. I could hit the pause button at any given time and continue “and watching for pigs on the wing”, “mother should I build a wall”, “the show must go on” etc. And none of the songs I heard on the radio around the time of release appealed to me at all.
Still got it when I saw it cheap and listened a couple of times. I was a bit speechless at the lack of musical ideas! Half of the tracks have nothing new. Picture That is One of These Days with vocals, in other words a less interesting sibling of Sheep. Then there was the tasteless recycling of Rick’s sounds and parts from Animals. Almost no guitar solos to break up the monotony.
The other half of the tracks (e.g. The Last Refugee) still linger in my memory for their total lack of direction.
To add insult to injury, the mastering on the CD is awful, especially for PF standards. Smell the Roses totally drowns in compression and I hate the dead drum sound.
In short, I tried giving it a chance but realized that if an album sounds worse to me upon each listen… I should probably stop listening to it.
I was surfing the net in the early hours this morning and noticed a new post on YouTube by Roger. I watched it and thought finally! I really don’t know why they are continuing to argue the toss over who did what and when. It’s not like they are skint and neither of them can really say who did what, where etc with true accuracy etc. Can you remember what you did 50 years ago? It’s like two children fighting over a toy, totally pathetic and unnecessary. No one stands to gain from it! As for this re issue, I’m hoping it’s a good one. I don’t want a completely “remixed” version, just one that sounds amazing and hopefully can hear Rogers take on the Psalm a bit clearer and looking forward to the 5.1 mix! Just the small matter of The Wall surround sound mix that was omitted from the Immersion set………
I can see why Gilmour would object to those liner notes, as they’re pretty much all about Roger Waters, with the rest of the band effectively reduced to sidemen. Then again, with Former Guy out of office and covid having ruled out touring for the last 15 months, Waters apparently has nobody to rail against now, so it’s back to turning on his former bandmates. Pretty sad, really.
For what it’s worth, I agree, Kevin. It reads to me very much as “Roger did this…and this … and this…” whilst the rest of the band happened to be around occasionally. I’m sure that what Roger says is true, at least in part, but to be held up for at least 3 years on such a matter does seem rather petty on both sides. I would have thought that at least putting Roger’s view in, and/or an alternative, might be a way forward.
I consider myself a Floyd fan, though not one of Animals, strangely. I will buy the set when it comes out, though, mainly for the 5.1 mix.
Does this mean that “The Wall” in 5.1 can’t be far away either?
All that I want to say is that Pink Floyd lost their “soul” when Roger Waters left.
This is absolutely fabulous, Spinal Tap would be blushing, how can he be so angry after all these years? LOL. I love Animals, hopefully it’s worth the wait, I’m sure it will be. One thing I can guarantee is that Roger W didn’t go for a copy of A Theatre For Dreamers with the signed CD
The bickering is pointless, but I don’t see Waters stopping his various public provocations anytime soon.
Would prefer to see an Immersion-style box set for Animals, with live versions from the ’77 tour and other goodies. Animals is certainly worthy of the same treatment as Dark Side, WYWH, and The Wall, in my opinion. The most underrated Pink Floyd album of any era. Maybe Gilmour did not contribute as much to the songwriting, as Waters will assert, but his guitar playing on Animals is exceptional.
But no marbles and coasters please??
When I first read about this earlier today, my initial reaction was, at last an Animals Immersion Box set. Then I read the detail and at best it’s a remix with 5.1 and nothing else. With the ongoing gripping a release date is likely to be pushed and pushed. At least it saves on Christmas cards between the pair.
Yeah, when I saw that it was just the album and no other content on four different formats, took the excitement level down to almost nothing. Better be a peach of a remix before I’ll shell out whatever this will cost for two, possible three discs I will never use and even then, not sure. And I gladly bought the Early Years, Later Years and all Immersion sets!
Just read the full post, wow, so much bitterness still.
Roger Waters and Peter Hook do seem to have a lot in common…
Let it go people.. Life is short.
Leave your egos aside, play some music together and get over it.
Hook and Waters playing together would be funny. They can just decorate the stage with big photos of Gilmour and Sumner with lines over their faces.
Lots of parallels with New Order & PF. Both torn apart by an ongoing feud involving furious bass player vs inscrutable singer/guitarist – with a mild mannered drummer and keyboardist stuck in the middle and not getting the credit they deserve. Both have a fragile group dymanic somewhat defined by losing an iconic frontman early on and then suddenly you end up with two people who don’t really want to front the band but also get quite keen on the spotlight. The difference is Hooky and the rest seem to recognise that New Order/Joy Division is bigger than any of them, they do seem to bury the hatchet and collaborate on their SDEs and other legacy releases which have contributions from all 4 because I think they do understand they need to do right by their own musical legacy (well more than they used to anyway!).
I love all things Floyd, save for most of the Wall and all of the Final Cut. Try as I did very much to like those, and listen to Roger’s solo works…I never took to any of it. But he has his fans. Fair enough. I love what PF did as a band. I value his part in that. But until his dying day apparently that is not enough for him. PF fans must praise his “creative genius” ever more for his ego and finally admit that Gilmour and Wright were nothing without him. And how dare a female write songs for Pink Floyd after Lord Roger left. We must mock her for the glory of Lord Roger. All hail the creative genius. Pity him for having to endure working 45 years ago with the nuisance bandmates he had to drag along.
And how dare a female write songs for Pink Floyd after Lord Roger left. We must mock her for the glory of Lord Roger.
To be fair, Polly’s lyrics are pretty diabolical, and definitely worthy of mockery. It’s nothing to do with her being a woman.
In 1994, most fans and critics thought her influence was good and the lyrics on TDB were better than those on AMLOR.
I wish all the previous Immersion boxes included vinyl like this new one will,glad it is finally being released,hope its this year.
I am beginning to think that Roger is the estranged grandad of Liam and Noel Gallagher, as it’s touch and go who bickers the most. Would love this release if it ever gets released, shame that there appears to be no additional content like DSOTM, WYWH and The Wall sets. Like all Floyd and solo material but think Nick Mason SOS, best solo stuff by far.
Come on don’t you think Grandad is a bit harsh?
Waters is 77, the Gallaghers 54 respectively 48 years of age at the moment of writing…
(but estranged? Certainly)
Does anyone know if there’s a chance the Animals concert-films / projections are also going to be included as they were on the DSOTM Immersion set and the recent Later Years set?
We’ve wanted this for years so pleased it’s coming. Clearly the bootlegs I have of demos and the 1977 live tour aren’t ready for the bin after all though :(
I agree with roger tho on most points!!
At the very least Roger’s memoirs should be well worth perusal!
Yes, I wonder if he’ll read the audiobook (LOL)!
Only if he can do so in his Angry Scotsman voice.
Instant buy for me. ;-)
I reckon it’ll make Morrissey’s “Autobiography” look like a Mills & Boon novel!
I’ve got to the point where I am Team Mason. Gilmour and Waters are never going to stop hating on each other. Its just that Roger is happy to do it in public. It would be lovely if a third party was able to go in and sort out archive releases, but I don’t think it is going to happen. We are just going to have to make do with RoIO of stuff.
A 5.1 has been done of The Wall (according to Roger) I wonder if we will ever see that.
There’s also the 5.1 of Meddle which technically hasn’t been officially released too.
Oh well, as long as someone gets to wear the crown, I guess :(
Even after all these years, these two characters do not stop clashing into each other, directly or indirectly. I always thought the Animals album was going to be part of a mid-years Floyd box. Waters obviously did not care about the Later Years box and I have no idea of his involvement in the Early Years version. The mid-years is probably where Waters has much to loose. I don’t like Gilmour’s last album and accompanying tour became a bit of a Floyd tribute band. Recently, sitting in his garden with his family playing some guitar tunes almost starts to look like the Kelly Family from the 80s. So Waters stays most closest what I enjoy(d) about Pink Floyd.
No extra tracks, demos ? Come on ! Who needs 4 versions of the same album ?
I imagine the formats will be CD (new stereo mix), vinyl (new stereo mix) and this box set with the 5.1 and stereo mixes. I’m not expecting a blu-ray or DVD as a standalone format. This is all speculation as nothing has been officially announced.
I can see Acoustic Sounds doing a standalone surround disc as they did with Wish You Were Here and, according to their site, a new Dark Side SACD – https://store.acousticsounds.com/d/133317/Pink_Floyd-The_Dark_Side_Of_The_Moon-Hybrid_Multichannel_SACD
But I can see curated live tracks or a complete show from the Animals Tour on here at least. If they don’t add any extras here it merely adds fire that they might add them into the rumored Middle Years box set.
I agree – the basic ‘Animals’ tracks came together around the same time as ‘WYWH’ so surely there’s some gestational demos of “You Gotta Be Crazy” and “Raving and Drooling” that would be of interest. Also, one would think there’s some cracking live material from the same era in a vault somewhere.
Based on Roger Waters’ latest rant, I think David Gilmour should now change his Twitter profile to simply:
“A jolly good guitarist and singer.”
Also the title of Gilmour’s next book?
Possibly subtitled: Or How My Muse Convinced Me That I Always Have Been The Main Man In Pink Floyd (Except When Syd Barrett Was But Only Because I Wasn’t In Pink Floyd Then)
When ‘Momentary Lapse of Reason’ came out, Waters infamously called it “…very facile, but a quite clever forgery”. I remember thinking at the time “hey, at least he said it was clever!”
He actually later said he liked some of the chord progressions on AMLOR, whereas TDB was just “rubbish from beginning to end”. That must’ve hurt Rick considering his re-integration into the band.
Here comes another Floyd spat!
I couldn’t vote because I really can’t relate to any of the options.
I do think that Floyd after Waters is not as good as before (although I still can’t listen to The Final Cut). While I’m sure that Waters isn’t the easiest of people to work with, banning him from accessing the Floyd channels (while simultaneously using those channels to promote your wife’s work) does seem unfair.
*If* what Waters says, about Gilmour wanting to rewrite history, is true you can see why he would object to the original Mark Blake sleeve notes as they are indeed very favourable to Waters (which doesn’t surprise me – I always thought he was considered to be the driving force behind the band).
Anyway, all in all I don’t see there is any way Gilmour and Waters are ever going to kiss and make up. I’m glad I saw them perform together at Live 8 – shame it didnt lead to a reconciliation.
A final thought – I wouldn’t be surprised if this release gets derailed now.
Having read Blakes’ intended notes, the only thing I can see DG objecting to is the subtle inference that he was a minor player (he shared vocals on one track, and was the guitar player). The focus is largely on RW (which may of course be perfectly valid), and that might be an issue if it’s now ‘your band’ and you’re the ‘main man’. Other than that, I can’t see anything contentious.
Hope the album gets separate vinyl and cd releases. Putting all four formats in a single box looks like another case of fan-exploitation (a bit strong, I know) that we were discussing in regards to the upcoming Queen GH ‘package’). They know they’ll sell a lot of these sets knowing that many buyers won’t need all four formats.
This news should be a cause of joy for us fans of Pink Floyd but it feels like every bit of good news is a case of one step forward, two steps back due to the bickering. There really is no need for this post by Waters. Surely every band goes through negotiations like this when releasing content and not everyone gets their own way, especially so when that split is so bitter. The part where he states Gilmore is “a jolly good guitarist” is clearly a massive dig. What does he hope to gain from this? Another leg up in the ongoing game of Who Hurt Who? We don’t really care how two millionaries bicker about who did what tape loop. We just want to hear (and hold) the mixes (especially the 5.1) for one of the great albums of the 70’s. It seems some egos never die.
Sadly, this feud between the two will never end. Not so long ago Roger wanted to make peace and even considered getting back together with David and Nick for whatever you might call a reunion. Roger has been promoting ‘love all over the world’ and to ’empathize with our fellow human beings’ during his Us & Them tour in recent years. Yet, after last year’s comments at the fact of not being able to promote his stuff on the official Pink Floyd website and now this dig at David, he’s not helping himself. I appreciate both their work and opinions, but wonder who is the Pig and who is the Dog. Clearly no sheep here :)
That aside, I’m chuffed this will now be released and look forward to see the various formats and details.
“Roger is a dog in the manger and I am going to fight him” – David Gilmour, mid-80s :)
Roger has become even more gnarly the older he gets. A lot of Instagram posts I’ve seen of his have been fuelled by wine and perhaps this was literally in his system when composing the latest diatribe. Gilmour seems more quiet and less confrontational although I can see by dragging Polly Samson into it Roger has pressed the nuclear button. A rather tawdry situation but it won’t harm the publicity for said release…
Won’t post my political views on here for fear of side tracking any debate but whilst Waters may have a point he’s a control freak and has some outlandish political preferences so I’m Team Gilmour.
Also, the more Waters took charge the worse the material Floyd produced
If your final sentence was right we would be really talking of “but on a very high level” here.
When i look at the post-1983 releases of new work by Gilmour/PF and Waters i am clearly in favour of the albums that Waters gave us.
Agreed, it’s not quite Michael / Ridgeley but not far off. The fun / interest was when the two were working together. Just because one is better at music or lyrics doesn’t mean that handing responsibility over carte blanche for those music and / or lyrics will make the music more accessible. Take away the lesser and the greater isn’t necessarily so good.
Sometimes a wholesale separation of tasks works. John / Taupin or Andersson / Ulvaeus for example but they still have to pull together not apart.
“outlandish political views”? Not sure why that’s relevant to this debate but give me someone with RW’s passion and standing up for the oppressed over DG’s cold emotionless banality every time. The best PF material was unquestionably led by RW and his challenging and passionate solo output is streets ahead of the clinical, brilliantly played but all rather soulless material DG has put out in his own name (supported of course by his lyrical muse).
Agree. I think it is Roger Water’s passion, whether it be political, social or artistic that gave so much fire to his contributions to Pink Floyd.
For what it’s worth, Gilmour and Waters are very much on the same political page. This is not the problem here (although I guess Gilmour prefers to be more subtle, such as inviting Gilad Atzmon to play on The Endless River – an Israeli who probably has more contempt for Israel than Waters has).
What strikes me is just how amateurish and almost nursery rhyme simplistic those liner notes are.
Very odd. Roger this roger that roger thought of this and roger thought of that.
Embarrassing. I say this as a long time Floyd fan.
Every band has issues just like this. Professional bands. Amateur bands. Waters just comes across as a bit of a prick to be honest. Excuse my language.
Regarding Gilmours tape loop quotes he could be talking in general terms about how to make tape loops. Waters is paranoid.
He has never got over Floyd continuing without him and how he failed to get the sooo success initially, even though he is ultra successful in his own tours now.
He needs to grow up.
An absolute snooze fest that has been going on for years.
No wonder Gilmour vetoed it. They’re just crap sleeve notes.
I would forgive Gilmour for his comment about the tape loops. He explained how “we” Pink Floyd did it. Should he have been more honest and said that Roger did the tape loop? Maybe, but pride is pretty had thing to swallow.
Let’s hope it’s not just a deluxe box set – happy with either the remix on vinyl or cd – don’t need it on 4 formats
I only need the Blu-ray and CD.
If I had to I could live with just the Blu-ray.
Already have the wall immersion with no 5.1 so need that eventually (before we’re all dead, preferably)