Real World shrugs its shoulders at Peter Gabriel “So” box criticism

Peter Gabriel / So Super Deluxe EditionOur criticism of Peter Gabriel‘s So Deluxe Box received an unprecedented response from fans, with record breaking hits and an enormous amount of you leaving comments to tell us that you were in complete agreement.

This open letter sought to draw some kind of response from Gabriel or his management team and late last week, things looked positive, when EMI informed us that having drawn their attention to the storm of criticism, Real World and PG Management were ‘constructing a response to your letter’.

Alas, after the Bank Holiday weekend minds were changed, and we have been informed today that ‘Team PG’ have decided they will not issue a response after all. Apparently they did not want to be seen apologising or getting defensive about this set which is still seven weeks away from release.

We were told by EMI that in the coming weeks videos will appear on Peter Gabriel’s website which will ‘explain the approach’ to the So deluxe box. Doesn’t sound too hopeful and it is unlikely that we will find any answers to the key questions:

  • • Why no B-sides/remixes/single bonus tracks included?
  • • Why two DVDs and NO Blu-ray?
  • • Why so much vinyl in the set?
  • • What’s with the duplication?
  • • Why no hi-res discs or 5.1 surround?
  • • Why does it cost nearly £100?

Finally, anyone hoping for some last minute spec changes to the box can forget it. EMI have confirmed that no changes will be made.

If you are a Peter Gabriel fan, let us know if you’ll be buying this set despite the flaws. Leave a comment below.

SuperDeluxeEdition.com helps fans around the world discover physical music and discuss releases. To keep the site free, SDE participates in various affiliate programs, including Amazon and earns from qualifying purchases.


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My brother suggested I may like this website. He was once totally right. This post actually made my day. You cann’t imagine just how much time I had spent for this info! Thanks!


No, I won’t buy it.

To me the biggest disappointment is that the concert isn’t available on Blu-Ray. The same is of course the case with Genesis’ When in Rome (2007).


Well done for raising these points with team PG. it is overpriced and has too much vinyl. After teasing us with clips and promises about the Athens concert for so long, to only give it as part of the extortionate box set is a slap in the face to all his fans. Add to that an absence of dates in his home country for the So tour, it just shows that they just don’t care. Nuff said.


The price is ridiculous and no blu-ray? I pass.


Not buying. There is nothing interesting in this set. What a shame, because this is a really great album. Superdeluxe edition must include B sides & 12″ Mixes, especially track like ‘ Don’t Break This Rhythm ‘. I think that disc one must include all original album, B Side and some mixes. Let’s face it, there is lot of empty space. Original album time is only 46:25.

Ryan Talbot




Add another to the “won’t be buying it” camp. In my worthless opinion, and after all we all enjoy gassing off about something, both SO and US were the high points of PG’s career. They are the most solid and enjoyable albums he released (again IMWO). Although I do think that a significant argument can be made for the same for III and IV as well. Nonetheless, we all have expectation that PG would put together a nice accessible Deluxe Edition / Super Deluxe Edition like the Beat did with their quintessential three albums the 2CD+DVD or Pink Floyd’s DSTM opus, or even Paul McCartney’s Ram 4CD+DVD. We all hoped that it would be something each of us would want for a reasonable price – maybe coming in at a street value of at most $75/£48. That would have been nice. However he’s not done that and it honestly is his prerogative to do whatever he feels like with his own music. Let’s just be thankful he doesn’t try to rewrite history, re-record and/or muck up the originals like Ozzy Osborne did with the bass and drum parts on his first major solo albums. I am disappointed but I don’t have to buy it either. Maybe it will show up in a cut-out bin or a deep discounter or on Amazon holiday special for super low discount price. Then maybe if I am lucky and find it will I acquire it.


I normally buy everything Gabriel…. depressingly, not this time…. arghhh… no point. What a letdown.


After more than thirty years as a Gabrielite, this will be the first release that I will not buy to complete my collection. I just cannot justify it to myself. I’ve bought everything else….everything. I’ll buy the 3 CD version, and get the Athens concert and Classic albums when they’re released on blu-ray. Vinyl is useless to me now, and it seems I’m not the only one. Also, I would much rather the b-sides and original 12″ remixes in the set, and a 5.1 surround blu-ray (most of all).

And to Rob commenting above, if you think Blu-ray is a ‘niche’ format comparable to vinyl, I don’t know what world you’re shopping in. Blu-ray is everywhere.

Lastly, I’m sorry Peter, but I’ve waited long enough since ‘Up’ for something new and fresh, enduring your monthly Full Moon updates waiting for good news. It seems now for the first time in your career you’re looking backwards, not forwards…judging by the cover versions of ‘Scratch My Back’ + ‘New Blood’. As sad as it is, for me I think it’s over. I’ve given up. Thank you for some magnificent music since 1970. Cheers.


Oops, that last in response to Rob, not Paul!


I’m really having trouble understanding the extreme amount of venom that is directed towards this reissue. Like everyone else, I too am disappointed by the lack of b-sides or a 5.1 mix. But I do think that what is included in the box does justify its purchase. I felt far more ripped off by The Who’s Live at Leeds box or Pink Floyd’s The Wall box.

Let’s look at what we’ve got here:

1) Athens concert on DVD. – I’ve been waiting for this to get a DVD reissue forever. My VHS copy is worn out.

2+3) Athens concert on CD. – Why would I complain about a live album from the So tour? The complaint here is that this is duplication of the DVD, but I never hear anyone complain when a band releases a concert DVD and includes a CD of the audio content. I was glad when Bowie did it for his Glass Spider DVD reissue. There are times when I want to hear the music that I can’t watch the video, like on a drive somewhere. I am happy to have the concert on CD.

4) So DNA CD. – Peter releasing his demos? HELLO! Giving his fans a peak inside is vaults is not something he has ever done much of. And unlike Springsteen or Townshend, Gabriel’s demos don’t tend to circulate on bootleg. This is huge! But reading people’s comments though I think they’d be happier if this disc was never included and was replaced with a disc of remixes and b-sides. Now as much as I’d like to see the b-sides & remixes appear in this box, this CD is much more important. It’s material that fans have never heard.

5) So on vinyl. – I get it, lots of people don’t have turntables anymore (some younger fans never even owned one.) Vinyl is now a niche format. But many of the people who are complaining about the inclusion of the vinyl are also complaining about the lack of blue-ray, also a niche format. What people are overlooking about this is that this vinyl pressing of So promises to be the best vinyl pressing of the album ever. Half-speed mastered on heavy-weight vinyl. Anyone who has ever experienced listening to some of Mobile Fidelity’s heavy-weight half-speed mastered LPs would certainly be excited about this, as am I.

6) 12″ single with 3 additional So outtakes. – Again, I get why some people would be upset about it being on vinyl, but once again, it’s three more unreleased tunes from Gabriel’s vaults. I’d rather look at the glass as being half-full and be happy that I was getting more material that I’ve never heard before than get too upset about what format it’s being presented in. Plus, now with the news that the box will also come with a code for a high-res download, there’s a lot less to complain about here.

7) Classic album DVD. – The only valid complaint I see here is that folks who prefer blue-ray end up buying this disc twice. Otherwise, it’s a new piece that I’m happy to own.

8) So on CD. – Obviously anyone who is interested in this box most likely already owns the album, so this disc is duplication of something they already have in their collection, but that is par for the course on this sort of reissue.

So, to sum up, we get three discs (So DNA, 12″ and Classic Album DVD) of material that have never been released before. We also get four discs that will be significant upgrades of previously released material (best vinyl pressing of So, first appearance of Athens concert on DVD & CD.) I think it’s a better buy than The Wall box where I had to repurchase four CDs of material that I already owned just to get two CDs worth of demos and a pretty worthless DVD. (Maybe Peter should have included marbles & a scarf!)

Having said all that, Peter is long overdue for a career spanning box set. Back when CDRs first came into existence, I compiled a collection for myself of all of Peter’s non-LP b-sides, remixes, soundtrack and tribute album contributions, etc…. It took six CDs to compile them all. In the 15 years since I did that, many more have been released. Having them all together in one big box is long overdue. Peter says he’s taking 2013 off to do some some traveling with his family. Perhaps in that time he should instruct his staff to start compiling that set. It needs to happen. Many of these songs have never appeared in a digital format, some of them have only been released on 7″ singles and could use a sonic upgrade. And if anyone’s interested in hearing what that might sound like, click the link on my name which goes to my podcast. Episode #273 is my fantasy Gabriel box set. Peter, give it a listen!


In a certain way I think you are right Rob, but I do not only like ‘new’ (or never before issued) items/music/tracks. But I also like them in a nice and good quality. So why include those 3 new tracks on 12″ only and not on a cd as well (a 3 track cd single release if no time left on a other disc).And why release the docu on dvd and not on blu ray (as is released as well), and that athens concert came from 16mm which is painfully restored, so why not a bd release as well? I’m afraid that when I buy this box (as with that new blood box) pretty soon the seperate releases on blu ray will see the light of day and I have to buy it again.
And finally, the demo’s…..As we do not know yet what we get I cannot be too excited about it. Those wall demo’s are nice, but way too much too short snippets. How many times do you listen to demo’s after all. (personally,I listen to it once, and some twice… the first time…. what did I buy…..how does it sound….. and most often I am dissapointed as it runs for 3 minutes with a basic drum track etc and is nice to listen too once but then gets boring)


Paul, I think you make some good points, and clearly there is a difference between a release that is simply unattractive and one that invites an angry response.

Taken one by one, the extras may seem (to you) worthwhile, but my belief is that they just didn’t have enough for a super-deluxe at all. They barely have enough for a regular deluxe (the album plus the demos, with maybe a third disc for the documentary DVD). They’ve padded this with the live material, which could have been a standalone release, and the vinyl, which is very desirable to some but of no interest at all to most.

What makes me mad is that they’ve put together what are effectively three somewhat-attractive releases and indemnified themselves against making a loss on any of them by sticking them in the same box and making everyone buy them as a package, at a very high price. This sort of premium pricing, based on one or two ‘hostage’ discs, needs to be discouraged by consumers.


You know that you’ll be able to ‘find’ the DNA disc on line fairly soon. So I really wouldn’t bother if that’s the only reason to buy this box.


No sale here. We have to see some of these botched releases fail at retail … then maybe the record companies will do a bit of market research before slinging these things together. To be honest, I was already irritated by the decision to release a fuller version of Live Blood on CD only a few months after I bought it as part of the New Blood boxed set. PG is going to get quite a reputation for fleecing his fans … and none of my cash.

Paul H

In truth, a lot depends on what’s on that DNA disc. Admittedly the price is too high and there is much too much duplication but any set that contains a better sounding version of the actual album, 2 unreleased tracks, one unreleased alternative mix and, possibly, a disc of demos HAS to be worth consideration.

If the price drops significantly, I’ll probably pick this up.

Andrew Dineley

I actually don’t think the price is *that* steep for the amount of design and prep that has gone into the special edition. Others have charged more for less. Having said that, it is not enough or what I expected/wanted, and the duplication and omissions are unforgivable, I’m also in agreement about the vinyl being pointless. Without the b-sides, mixes and POV footage it’s just not worth it. They’ve messed up Big Time. Pun intended, not going to be buying this.


Buy this? HELL NO!!!!

Bruno MacDonald

Will be passing on it for all the same reasons: vinyl useless to me; key b-sides/soundtrack cuts absent; too expensive; nothing wrong with existing remaster of So itself… shame.


I cancelled my pre-order from Amazon today !!!

James Pigg

The lack of B-sides and remixes means I shall be passing on this too.

What annoys me about releases like this that record companies fail to realise two things:

1) Most serious music-collecting are completists and want everything that’s out there.
2) Fans of artists of this vintage like to wallow is nostalgia and therefore re-issuing all the stuff they bought on vinyl in their teens on CD is a big deal.

The Michael Jackson BAD set is a classic example where instead of issuing the remixes from the time they have added pointless new ones that no-one wants. PG has done the same here – I’d much rather have the B-Sides/remixes than a live concert.

One day – a record company will take a leap of faith and let the fans dictate a re-release. They will find that faith rewarded by the number of copies they sell.

Judging on the comments here PG will find he isn’t going to shift many copies of his woefully inadequate So box.

Matthew James

Good points. I wonder sometimes if the labels forget that a reissue will likely be bought by existing fans. They should acknowledge that fans are interested in the box set as historical document. I think the Suede reissues are exemplary in this regard. I bought them all, even though across all five there is probably one disc of recordings that I didn’t already have (on CD even) and that I’ll listen to more than once. Why isn’t this archival approach actually celebrated and used to market these sets?


I´ve heard and seen on the PG website that they actually ADDED something: a 24-bit-Download code for the album and the extra titles!

But well, I´m a huge PG fan and I find his or his management non-response towards your suberp letter so disappointing, that I won´t buy this set.


I’m not a fan but i like the singles and hoped for a 3-disc edition with the album, b-sides, remixes etc. + a documentary.
The box and the 3 cd dissapoint. i don’t like concerts on cd. I prefer the studio version or the concert on dvd or blu-ray.

I’m going to buy the single cd edition and maybe the blu-ray.

Nuno Bento

I will pass on this box too.
What a pity, Mr. Gabriel, I was expecting more from you…


Actually, it’s not that bad for me.
* I already own most (if not all) of the B-sides and remixes from this era.
* I don’t really care about Blu-Ray
* I own a vinyl turntable
* I don’t have equipement to read hi-res audio (however note that there is a studio quality 24 bit digital download of the ‘So’ album plus the tracks ‘Courage’ and ‘Sagrada’ plus ‘Don’t Give Up (piano bvox mix)’ available via a unique download code.)

The audio version of the concert, I’m not very keen on, but I may end up enjoying it, it a nice bonus. Plus it looks like a nice boxset.

So… :-) The only real problem will be the price. I know Amazon and other stores have been really agressive on Pink Floyd immersion boxset prices, so I’ll wait and see. I won’t pay more than €100 for sure, I think I’ll draw the line around €80/€90.

But I’m nonetheless slightly disappointed by PG approach to the whole thing.


I won’t buy it, too disappointing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This is a real disappointment for me.

I’m a big fan. I have all the remasters of the albums including the 2 disc version of “Play.” I’m also excited about of having a new concert released.

I really enjoyed the “Passion Sources” and “Plus from Us” releases and I’m very interested in the “early” versions but that box set is not for me without the b-sides and remixes and other period releases.

It’s like U2’s Achtung Baby monstrosity that messed up the awesome line of their remasters.

If I can get the 3 disc set for under twenty bucks, I’ll pick it up.

Roy Harper

NO, I will not be buying the set. An organization with so little customer focus in their product design does not deserve my moolah, and I can’t justify the expense with so little added material.

I’m looking forward to seeing PG at Red Rocks in month, however.


NO, I wont be buying it. Ill struggle to not get it but at the end of the day, Peter already has so much of my money he does not need anymore.

PG, pretty much the nail in the coffin for your re-releases from here on in, I think you will struggle to gain back the trust of the hardcore fans ever again, maybe you just don’t care!!

oh Well at least King Crimson is doing some great releases now


Moving on , to the arrival of The Gift


(Disclaimer: Burn The Heretic comment on your way in 5..4..3..2..1..)

If they had wanted his fans to design it they would have asked the fans to design this. I am not surprised that they are not responding. The people who put this together think it is an awesome and solid product and don’t want to defend it to the consumer.

I personally think this album is so-so, I didn’t grok it when it was new and I find it just as overrated now. I gave up on the labels years ago, if there is an album that I really love I just make my own deluxe version of it. Sure it doesn’t have some fancy box that I paid for that sits on my shelf with all sorts of gimmes included that I don’t really need or want to pay for…..I just sit down and bang out a version of the album using the original, the mixes, the b-sides, usually mixes I made on my own and I call it “_______” Re-Made & Re-Modeled” and it becomes the version that I listen to for evermore.

Ryan Talbot

I pre ordered the box set JUST NOW on amazon.com for $99.99
(Let’s hope it continues to drop, the lower the better)

The 2 Live CDs, So DNA CD, Live DVD, and book (plus the “new” download of the vinyl bonus tracks) makes it worth an amazon pre-order for that price (after all, I can cancel any time).

And yes, I am upset that they aren’t going to change anything else in the box set, but I really did not expect them to.

Paul Kent

Why do the majors keep getting things so badly wrong, while the likes of Edsel and Salvo keep hitting ’em out of the park time and time again? I just can’t understand it. They keep trying to be clever and over think everything and consistently come up with crap like the ‘So’ box. Just keep it simple and hit paydirt (see Edsel’s Deacon Blue set) or have the good grace to keep the price of mediocre collections down (see Bad25). I’d like to think those responsible for ‘So’ were being cynical and calculating, but that would require a modicum of thought having been employed – patently, there was none! No, I won’t be buying it, in any form. I’ll stick with my 2002 remaster, thanks.


As it stands, I have zero interest in the So boxset and will therefore be spending zero pounds on it as a result. Would a 3-disc set (a la Deacon Blue’s upcoming series) really have been too much to ask for? Original album remastered, all the b-sides/remixes, the promo videos and concert on a DVD. It’s amazingly simple.

Daniel Pitterman

This may well be the first PG release I skip. I’ll probably by the 3 cd version and download the rest off of the net. I’ll be the first to pre-order a b-sides collection but I’m totally sick of all the vinyl stuff. Make that a separate purchase for the minority who still use turntables.


If PG would have listened to his fanbase and their (our) wishes he still was a genesis member. So, from that/his point of few I can imagine he wants to do the things he wants to do, wants to release what he wants to release, no matter what his fans will think of it. And then again, with how many people are we on this (marvelous indeed) website. 50? 100? So I can image that PG or real world or EMI or whoever releases this SO box is not completey impressed by the open letter and the complaints. Soi may be 20-30 of ‘our’ people won’t buy it, but how many amazon buyers world-wide would consider or even buy this.
Personally, I hope none would buy it as I hate/despite the arrogance of these record companies to release what they want, without any intrest to the music, other than making money out of it.
Beeing in mine mid 40’s, I’m from a generation that rather buy cd’s then download them, but I can understand the younger generation who never buy an cd. And in respect to the record companys, as long as they keep beeing this arrogance it’s no wonder people create bootlegs/downloads etc. I personally would like to hear the b-sides/ 12inch versions (have them all on vinyl) and am willing to spend mine money for that, no matter if EMI releases it or some bootlegger who spend his time to remove the clicks from vinyl. (OK, I rather have the original master tape on cd, but if that turns out to be unavailable some torrent download will do the trick). Those big record companies should change their policy if they want to survive. Not to release what they thinks makes the money, but what the fans wants to hear. Fans will pay for a good release in mine oppinion, even over a download. But we fans are not stupid. I have the album on vinyl, on cd, the sacd, why should I purchase it again? To have extra;s like the b-sides , original 12inch and 7inch versions, properly mastered. I’m not (like the BAD 25th release) into 2012 mixes for an 80’s album. I feel mistreated by the record company if they think me such a fool to fall and re-re-re-buy the album.
Sorry, i’m rambling…

Ian Hill

They are ‘constructing a response to your letter’ … oh, now they’re not. Just when you thought they couldn’t make things any worse? Somebody get them a spade to dig themselves out of the hole they’ve got themselves into with this. EMI has more clowns than a circus tent.

From the sound of it the ‘new sonic vision’ EMI have planned may make the whole thing easy to avoid anyway.

It’s because we all care so much that this debacle is so hard to take.

Bill Cason

I won’t be getting either version, they got it so wrong for me…Peter has enough of my money already anyway…

Brian Scott

I will not be buying this. As so many other people have said; too expensive, too much vinyl, content not special enough. All in all a huge opportunity missed


Asking any level of fan (modest or avid) to spend around $100 or 100 pon sets like this is insane. Sure there are those who can afford it, but for the average person hard to justify the cost when there’s a lot but not a lot most care about. Vinyl? I’m not a DJ. May consider 3CD set if on sale.


Well I’m from Argentina, so the deluxe boxed set is gonna cost me the double (importing it). So that would be something like U$300, and U$1 = A$ 6,50. It’s going to cost me something like A$2000. Our minimum salary here in Argentina is A$2600, that meaning no guy can earn less than A$2600 a month in 8 hour long workdays. So buying a record at A$2000 is out of the question. Go explain the purchase to the wife!. Besides that -I know it’s my own problem living in my shitty country- I couldn’t care less about vinyl, and certainly the Classic Albums DVD I think I could do without. I know these things are expensive, so this would be my ideal boxed set: So stereo and 5.1 remix + Live In Athens DVD + DNA CD + Another CD of B-Sides and unreleased material. I would be happy with just that. Anyway, the Athens 2CDs + Classic Albums + Vinyls I could do without them, if I’m asked.

fred smith

I will not be buying this version.



I’m a collector, have lots of box sets etc. However, I will not be buying this one though. I applaud your letter to PG/EMI. This box is a total disaster, knowing what could have been. This is the one calling for a major boycott. Love your blog by the way.

Richard Harris

I wish I could say I was surprised that Team PG are not prepared to comment but I’m not. I can picture the scene there before the weekend as they try to draft some defence.
“We need to come up with some case for this Super Deluxe Edition lot about why So is being re-issued in this extortionately priced format containing so much duplicated material and without any B-sides or a significant number of demos/out takes. Any ideas? No? Well we’ll just say No Comment instead then”.

I wonder how many of them are actually being manufactured. I hope a significant number remain unsold in a warehouse somewhere. The sad thing is that EMI would then conclude that there was no commercial market for any PG box sets. There is. But only if done properly.

Thanks Paul for your efforts to get them to justify the unjustifiable. I’m afraid this is one long-time Gabriel fan who will pass on this one.


…no, i won’t buy it! i don’t need vinyls neither live cds: i need live/ promo clips/ documentaries blurays and b-sides/ remixes/ bonus tracks cds!!! so: why shoud i???


…i mean: why should i???


Wow. I can’t believe you actually had a response from EMI based on the fan criticism. Congratulations, even though they didn’t bother in responding you for it.
I have to admit I am a sucker for re-releases in box set form and have “fallen” for many of the less-than-stellar box sets like the 3 Floyd boxes + discovery box set (I admit I listened to the boxes just once except for the surround sound portion, everything else including demos and the live CDs have been listened to once and extra packaging has been left intact), I actually sold the DSOTM box set and plan on doing the same with the other 3 immersions and get the SACD versions of the albums and wait until The Wall appears on surround sound. This actually taught me not to cash out out of excitement.

This time I will definitely not buy this simply because it’s not worth it. I will buy the 3 CD edition when its price goes below the 20 dollar mark, otherwise the fact that the whole POV concert is not included (as mentioned by Wolfib above) I lost interest in that one as well. I don’t have a turntable, I already saw the classic albums episode of the album (just OK), I have my fingers crossed the audio-visual concert is released eventually in its entirety on Blu-ray, and the fact that I learned thanks to the Wall Immersion Box Set that demos are nice to hear once in a while (maybe 3 times a year TOPS!) it would make no sense to buy this album.
Granted, I am interested in the new 2012 remastering and the book, but that doesn’t justify paying over a 100 dollars for a demos CD (and what kills me further, the two new tracks on the LPs only will not be available on CD and just digital download) and a book of which its contents are still unknown, but judging by previous box set releases the book will contain very brief literature, lyrics and many pictures you’ll look at a couple of times… so no thanks!

Besides, I could bet that by Christmastime this year the price will drop to around 80 bucks, then I would maybe consider buying it used for hopefully 50 or less, but I would still have to think 5 times before cashing out 50 bucks for that little content.

Julian Soriano

I’ll buy it when amazon recess (much much) the selling price.

Steve Marine

I will not be buying it. It’s not worth the money without the remixes/b-sides or the inclusion of blu-ray.



I won’t buy the deluxe box. Maybe the 3 CD version. And I’m not even sure to buy that one because the Athens concert is not complete : some tracks are missing (like Red Rain, Big Time which are some of the hits of So !), the order is the tracks is incorrect (it was starting with San Jacinto, not This is the picture), I’m pretty sure that This is the picture will be only an extract like in the Point of view video.

Very disappointed from Peter Gabriel. Seems like the only remaining people who buy CDs have to buy it at high price whatever the content is… It’s a pity…


Another box-set for £100. How much can I afford? Aqualung, 3xPink Floyd, Graceland. Bankrupcy is on the way!!


Not especially a PG fan, though did buy the 7″ singles from So at the time as a kid, but am a big fan of a good SDE.

Unfortunately, not one of these So reissues does anything for me. I’d have pre ordered a 2CD set that contained the b sides & remixes, but there’s nowt for me here.

Might hunt down the 12″s instead!

Mike Fisher

Well that’s saved me about £100. No sale as it currently stands.


Under these circumstances I am NOT going to buy it and save loads of money.

Thank you so much for this excellent open letter as it really represents a lot of peoples thoughts. This is sooo disappointing!